Saw pics of myself playing and it's not good...

[mbenigni]

Everytime I see pics of my band I think, we'd look pretty cool if I hadn't gotten so damn fat... maybe I should be sitting down LOL.

[Angstrom]

I am against the trend of 'micromanagement' to amuse the dweebs, I don't subscibe to the 'it's about the tunes man' attitude. Your role , like someone else said, is partly as a cheerleader. Like you mentioned - it's hard to lead a cheer when you are calculating the root of 9x41 - 240x27 + 1492.

Really the point is to draw people into your world, to believe in your power to funk them out. It doesn't actually take that much - pointing, gurning and bopping, even 'full body knob turning' is at least entertaining in a vaguely stupid way.

you've just got to believe in it, believe in your music and then everyone else might . Crowds often take the 'concentrating hard' look as I'm nervous around people, a bit shy, I hope this goes well, I'm not very confident about it, I dont leave my bedroom much, 9142 / 41 is what?

not sexay

crowds come to a gig wanting to be taken somewhere - hopefully somewhere exciting and entertaining, they dont give a shit if you paraddidle your quark nose on a 15th beat. Crowds do give a shit if you kinda looked at them with this special smile that seemed to say "I know" just when the voice said "you are the one!" , which was like y'know really like ammaaaaayyyzing man.

[mercyplease]

Well, I saw pics of myself playing live at a house party this weekend, and I'm disappointed with myself.

I never realized how little stage presence I have anymore. I've succeeded in going 100% improv (starting a Live set with a blank session view and going from there), but I never take my eyes off the screen, I'm totally engrossed in what I'm doing, and it looks...

...Boring.

Damn. I wasn't always like this!!!

When I was rocking hardware and triggering pre-written patterns on a midi sequencer, it was a hell of a better show. I could go nuts behind the gear and people loved it.

It took those pictures to really show me how boring one can be when performing. I mean, it took 100% of my concentration just to avoid fuck-ups and get my next element ready to bring in, and the transitions were a major headache... Because of that, I completely forgot to have fun.

I gotta get back to automating stuff. Sure the chin-strokers think what I'm doing with improv composition is wicked cool, but it's lame for the uninitiated to watch.

I guess it's why athletes watch video of themselves - it's the best way to critically analyze their past performances.

My advice to any stage / performing musicians; Watch a video of yourself for an hour with no sound. If you get bored, guess what: your audience will be too.

I saw photos of myself at my first gig ever, I was so fucking frozen stiff... granted my recent one turned out quite well





tip was, to get sloshed, slap on a gas mask, and just go with the drunkly flow

Your a real pro man!.

Ditch the mask you look like a gay serial killer.

[mercyplease]

Twiddling the knob.




Using the mouse




Playing the keys




......BOOOOOOORRRRRRRRIIIIIIINNNNNNNGGGGGGGG......


BTW, I cut out my face. I don't want my face to be associated with a performance that lame again. And yes, I'm wearing an ascot... But because it was a halloween party, I feel that I still have a shred of hetrosexual integrity left.

You needed photos to tell you that was boring. At least you dont look like a serial killer

[mercyplease]

i think some silly headgear is in order.

In your case yes. You need anything to take the attention away from your self.

[robtronik]

me playing on Oct. 21st. I opened for Adam Beyer and Magda here in LA.

Couple of points:

1) Laptop moved off to the side. It is there only as a reference point. I've worked on my set set up (clips in session view) so I know my stuff pretty well. I do a lot of preparation before hand so I only have to make the occasional look over to my screen to an occasional sanity check - or remember something.

Consistency in your clip view and practice is key for me so I can navigate the clip view without having to study the screen except on occasion.

Finally, moving the laptop off to the side causes me direct my energy to the mixer and the crowd. I keep eye contact and the effect is substantial. People don't tend to think of me as a laptop jockey because of this.

It helps that I have a Xone:3D too though, because everything is controlled there. I even have send and return effects used via outboard so I can use the send and return effects on the 3D without even doing that in Live (I obviously have effect racks set up and assigned, if I want to use them in Live, but like all spice - I use them sparingly). So, what I get is a central command station that allows me to rock the mix without looking at my screen except as a reference.

Keep your eyes on the people and the crowd as you have seen is important (and you knew anyway, but the experience of playing really reveals it).

[ A quick aside: I think the positive side of your experience is that you worked on getting your music tight. That's first in priority anyway. So now that you have that, you just need to tweak it back to how you envision yourself performing while not losing the integrity of the music playback to your taste. That's the art of it all. It is also why, IMO, people who criticize computer based performance as easy have no clue. They won't make it as true performance artists if they think it is so easy.]

- one other note: I have avoided the Jazz Mutant Lemur for the above reasons as well. With a Xone:3D I can grab a knob and twist without even looking down because I can feel my way across the mixer without looking down at all. W/ a lemur it is another screen to look at to make sure I'm twisting/pulling/moving a slider/knob or whatever, correctly.

Tactile stuff is KEY IMO. Lemur = cool, but not very good for slamming faders, jaming the EQ and showing movement while rocking a track, clip, or song, IMO.

Finally, my second point:

2) External Gear: I have drum machines hooked up (Machinedrum and Jomox 999 in this case) so I can program drum hits, syncopated samples, and general weirdness thorugh a track via manipulating those drum synths on the fly. Again, probably not necessary for playback of sound as they could be captured as clips and played back in Live. But that isn't the point. The point is interactivity and a compelling reason for people to feel like you are working on their behalf.

It is so key. And honestly, it makes the performance fun. I love Live/Reason, but when I'm playing I want to connect with the people. Fuck the laptop. Its just a repository of sounds, not my real medium of playback. My mixer and gear is what I want to use while I pump my fist or look at dancers and smile. It does wonders...

.02. (sorry for the long post, but I think about this stuff a lot and have been trying to get to a place of goodness for the last year when I completely ditched vinyl and started playing Live exclusively).



rob.

[Adonis]

Curious Rob, are you playing alot of your own material?

I'm just trying to figure out the best route to take when it comes to performing with LIVE

I have enough material of my own for maybe 1/2 hour to 45 minutes but...I think it would be nice to play alot of my downloaded beats with Ableton as well

Performing with Ableon is the next step in the evolution of music (IMO) - I'm just trying to get my head around performing my own music and playing other peoples (when it comes to Ableton)

In the overall scheme of things I'm gonna stick with TORQ for now because it's more exciting to actually 'touch' my turntables and I'm able to mix my music (re edited) with other peoples music

curious

a

[M. Bréqs]

Laptop moved off to the side...

Consistency in your clip view and practice...

Keep your eyes on the people...

Tactile stuff is KEY...

Word. Thanks amigo. Back when I was a hardware Live PA, I was a LOT more animated. Age, clean living, and computerization all contributed to this lack of stage presence. Now that I'm aware of it, it won't happen again. Maybe I'll put a mirror up in my studio so I can see myself dweebing out...

By the way, thanks all for the useful, constructive feedback!

[eamoon]

This is one reason why I'm psyched about my Monome. It's easy to pick it up, hold it towards the audience, and play while actually looking at them! I've still got to glance at the laptop and fiddle with it some, but not constantly. Makes the show more fun for everybody.

(On the other hand, it took a solid weekend of Max patching to turn the Monome into a Live controller.)

[robtronik]

Curious Rob, are you playing alot of your own material?

I'm just trying to figure out the best route to take when it comes to performing with LIVE

I have enough material of my own for maybe 1/2 hour to 45 minutes but...I think it would be nice to play alot of my downloaded beats with Ableton as well

Performing with Ableon is the next step in the evolution of music (IMO) - I'm just trying to get my head around performing my own music and playing other peoples (when it comes to Ableton)

In the overall scheme of things I'm gonna stick with TORQ for now because it's more exciting to actually 'touch' my turntables and I'm able to mix my music (re edited) with other peoples music

curious

a

To the extent that I have clips that are sounds, transitions, (drum loops, synth patches) that's original. Also, the drum machine stuff is original too (each machine has sample tweaking playback via their functionality). On rare occasions, the only thing coming out the mixer is all original.

But I so thoroughly intermix everything that it is hard to tell the difference.

Check out this one hour mix I just did on Thursday when I opened for Tipper/Aquasky this last week, it might give you a flavor of what I do:

http://djmixes.robtronik.com/Robtronik- ... -26-06.mp3

my blog post on it (w/ playlist) is at:
http://djmixes.robtronik.com

Part of my goal is to get to 50/50 in my performance. Right now it is like 10% original and 90% playback. Honestly, I don't want to really ever be 100% original material because I enjoy playing rocking tracks by other people too. I love being a DJ and picking and choosing sounds/tracks that rock a crowd.

I'm not so self involved (not that artists are, as a bad thing anyway) that I need to be all original and all about my artistic output. I think it also allows you to be open to do whatever - and I like the options. (And tactically playing a track allows you to regroup your gear, clips for original material playback if you want).

the final part to this is that I promote parties (Compression, etc.), do a radio show with TCM, DJ, have a job (propellerheads), married w/ son... and I just don't have the time to rock all original material. So the incremental approach by creating original samples, loops, etc. and interspersing them into a mix is organic way to grow your production chops and being prolific.

Two other things: Using my gear live also makes me way more effective in the studio with them too. Using them under pressure makes you learn them that much better. AND, and this is a big AND, I learn what my stuff sounds like in a live club environment right away. This is invaluable, I imagine, when making original songs because I know what stuff sounds like in a real club environment already before I commit it as final.

I do play out a lot though (at least once a week), so many people don't have that opportunity that I do in that regard. If I didn't play out as much, I might make CDs and hand them to other people to play, but that would necessitate making full tracks - which is not where I'm at yet.



rob.

[Adonis]

Curious Rob, are you playing alot of your own material?

I'm just trying to figure out the best route to take when it comes to performing with LIVE

I have enough material of my own for maybe 1/2 hour to 45 minutes but...I think it would be nice to play alot of my downloaded beats with Ableton as well

Performing with Ableon is the next step in the evolution of music (IMO) - I'm just trying to get my head around performing my own music and playing other peoples (when it comes to Ableton)

In the overall scheme of things I'm gonna stick with TORQ for now because it's more exciting to actually 'touch' my turntables and I'm able to mix my music (re edited) with other peoples music

curious

a

To the extent that I have clips that are sounds, transitions, (drum loops, synth patches) that's original. Also, the drum machine stuff is original too (each machine has sample tweaking playback via their functionality). On rare occasions, the only thing coming out the mixer is all original.

But I so thoroughly intermix everything that it is hard to tell the difference.

Check out this one hour mix I just did on Thursday when I opened for Tipper/Aquasky this last week, it might give you a flavor of what I do:

http://djmixes.robtronik.com/Robtronik- ... -26-06.mp3

my blog post on it (w/ playlist) is at:
http://djmixes.robtronik.com

Part of my goal is to get to 50/50 in my performance. Right now it is like 10% original and 90% playback. Honestly, I don't want to really ever be 100% original material because I enjoy playing rocking tracks by other people too. I love being a DJ and picking and choosing sounds/tracks that rock a crowd.

I'm not so self involved (not that artists are, as a bad thing anyway) that I need to be all original and all about my artistic output. I think it also allows you to be open to do whatever - and I like the options. (And tactically playing a track allows you to regroup your gear, clips for original material playback if you want).

the final part to this is that I promote parties (Compression, etc.), do a radio show with TCM, DJ, have a job (propellerheads), married w/ son... and I just don't have the time to rock all original material. So the incremental approach by creating original samples, loops, etc. and interspersing them into a mix is organic way to grow your production chops and being prolific.

Two other things: Using my gear live also makes me way more effective in the studio with them too. Using them under pressure makes you learn them that much better. AND, and this is a big AND, I learn what my stuff sounds like in a live club environment right away. This is invaluable, I imagine, when making original songs because I know what stuff sounds like in a real club environment already before I commit it as final.

I do play out a lot though (at least once a week), so many people don't have that opportunity that I do in that regard. If I didn't play out as much, I might make CDs and hand them to other people to play, but that would necessitate making full tracks - which is not where I'm at yet.

:)

rob.

I like that approach - that's kind of what I was thinking 50/50

I love making music with Ableton and now that I'm actually able to play my tracks long side some other jams I have it opens my ears to new ways of approaching my production

just making a track that does one thing and another that does something else - not to mention making full on jams with everything - drop that under or over some really big hits and you have a rocking party

thanks rob

peace

a

[electrosmith]

hello everybody....cool discussion here.

being a percussionist, i use a Roland trigger pad (SPD-S) and play beats live triggering samples on Impulse or Battery or simply in Live clips running on a laptop, with underlying bass/drum/melodic tracks. my partner uses a trigger finger and plays simple melodies or trigger a pad sound. people always come up and ask me about the drum pad because they can see the cause & effect of me hitting with a stick= a sound comes out, whether it's a sampled ethnic perc sound or an electronic bleep (i often combine both). the next step is to put different pitched samples as multiple velocity layers so i can play random melodies on my drum pads based on velocity, and to further layer traditional + electronic drum sounds...that kind of stuff. if i had a crew i would carry an acoustic percussion kit with me as well and play electronic and actual acoustic instruments.

i myself never enjoyed watching a person staring at a laptop on stage, no matter how funky the sounds s/he is making. if only i had a couple more hands, i would ideally trigger and tweak EVERYTHING. i've also thought about just using the computer keyboard or buttons on a Remote Zero or M-audio o2 to perform an entire song, as in start playing a kick & snare pattern, record that into Live, loop it, overdub it, etc. my idea is not so much doing live improv as it is "performing" a composed song, in the more traditional sense of the term. i just don't feel comfortable simply pressing play and playing over tracks.

here is a small photo of our setup (that particular gig i had bamboo chimes for one ambient improv piece)
www.myspace.com/thefusilliproject

[vertigo]

I think this is something that is effecting all DJs, wether using LIVE or Serato, playin IDM or Hip-Hop. Ive been DJing for 10 years now and was a beta tester for Final Scratch and am now DJing with Virtual DJ, and I have always made it a point to not focus on the screen. Now almost every picture of a DJ is a DJ with a lappy in front of there mixer and there eyes glued to it. I think the most important thing is just knowing your tracks so you dont have to squint at your screen to know where a break is. I think in the future, it is going to be a norm to see people hunched over there laptops not bouncing around, and if you look up once during the show, the crowd goes crazy!

[Adonis]

I think in the future, it is going to be a norm to see people hunched over there laptops not bouncing around, and if you look up once during the show, the crowd goes crazy!

I hope not. I'm all for moving forward with the Laptop revolution but a part of performing is, well performing - I've seen Pitch Black and they actually perform (the laptops are way off to the side, but ableton's definately in the mix and working 'behind the scenes')

if you're using final scratch or Torq, sure you're going to have to select tracks but you have to select records out of bag right? Difference is you can make picking a record out way more exciting then double clicking on a MP3 file...

Presence takes some skill, practice and inventiveness - some people have it, some don't.

I see some dj's put on make up and dress really weird and totally suck - I've seen guys get up there in jeans and a t-shirt and totally rock it - really

when I think of presence, think of appearance, your music and how you're conveying your music

if you're a fit jock back there jamming, working the mixer and you got some tough beats going on it all fits

if you're nerded out, hunched over a laptop chicken plucking at buttons and knobs playing strange music, well, that's going to be weird

you gotta figure out what you do, how you do it and they best way to do it

oh, and you really have to love what you're doing

[mikemc]

a lot depends on why people are there. never underestimate the power of a group of people in a gathering to completely ignore the most exciting things. I didn't see that you were running any visuals, which always helps.

Did the 45 people have a good time, did they like what they heard? that's what matters.

(Pitch Black, you always have good crowd pics you need to come up with some jpgs that allow a way to 'insert your act here' )