What "real daw" features is Live still missing?

jamester · Post by **jamester** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:07 am

I want a handy, all-in-one list of what important daw-type features are still keeping Live from being a full fledged daw in its own right.

So far the things I've noticed have been more minor annoyance than huge omission, things like:

- no proper time display
- no track folders
- needs better track-grouping abilities
- no track lanes/composite recording

A big issue that did get fixed in 6 is the meters, although it's still a bit of a pain that you can only see the numeric markers in Session view after manually widening them one at a time. In Sonar you have a number of options on how your meters look, including colors, segmented or not, numerical scale, horizontal or vertical appearance (horizontal is way better) etc...

I'm really curious what keeps you power users loyal to Logic and Cubase and such?

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:14 am

In Logic for me: the built-in instruments and plugins, and the automation. Both superb.

Oh and MIDI editing. And heavy Arrange Page audio editing. I'm still way better in Logic for me. But then I've had 12 yrs on it so there's some familliarity factor there combined with Live's more spartan DAW feature-set.

Live for me is the ULTIMATE... the EXTREME ULTIMATE live tool.

I'm really happy playing each to it's strengths.

Anubis · Post by **Anubis** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:15 am

C-mon guys the Session view in Live is the most innovative feature in sequencing software since well... the sequencer. I don't use it for live performance at all but the ability to compose on multiple planes (instead of just linearly) opens up new directions that I would not pursue otherwise. It was in fact such a revolutionary idea that Cakewalk re-invented Project 5 as Live, only with the X and Y axes inverted.

ikke · Post by **ikke** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:15 am

GROUPING TRACKS

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:28 am

a step sequencer
groove templates
better midi editing (eg groove templates)

glu · Post by **glu** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:33 am

fades...
crossfading between samples...

oh....

DAE errors hahahaha

jamester · Post by **jamester** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:33 am

Anubis wrote:C-mon guys the Session view in Live is the most innovative feature in sequencing software since well... the sequencer. I don't use it for live performance at all but the ability to compose on multiple planes (instead of just linearly) opens up new directions that I would not pursue otherwise. It was in fact such a revolutionary idea that Cakewalk re-invented Project 5 as Live, only with the X and Y axes inverted.

In absolute agreement with you there my friend! The question is not "what can Live do that traditional daw's don't?", cuz that's a huge list and we all know anyways - that's why we're here.

I'm trying to see just how far Live needs to go to be on their turf; I think that distance is much shorter than the other way around! =)

Seems to me that with a small handfull of additions, Live will have ALL bases truly covered.

DeadlyKungFu · Post by **DeadlyKungFu** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:36 am

drawing fader curves in session and arrangement view, seriously, wtf?

Anubis · Post by **Anubis** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:42 am

glu wrote:fades...
crossfading between samples...

yeah, that one is inexcuseable. How can you have a crossfader and yet not be able to crossfade two samples on the same track- what were they thinking. That should have been in Live 2.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 4:48 am

belzier curves for drawing automation/CC's

that would be delicious

dr.wackler · Post by **dr.wackler** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:27 am

Pitch Black wrote:In Logic for me: the built-in instruments and plugins, and the automation. Both superb.

I have to disagree on the latter one. In Live, when I cut/copy/move parts, I can absolutely rely on the automation being intact after those actions.
In Logic however, automation gets messed up quite easily: It's said to be track based, but as soon as you have any automation breakpoints in an area where no region exists, watch out!

rbmonosylabik · Post by **rbmonosylabik** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 5:34 am

Anubis wrote:
glu wrote:fades...
crossfading between samples...
yeah, that one is inexcuseable. How can you have a crossfader and yet not be able to crossfade two samples on the same track- what were they thinking. That should have been in Live 2.

I fail to see why crossfading samples is so important, or how it has anything to do with what the crossfader in Live does.

Synthbuilder · Post by **Synthbuilder** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:14 am

rbmonosylabik wrote:
I fail to see why crossfading samples is so important, or how it has anything to do with what the crossfader in Live does.

This is why it is important to me. When you have a loop with a tail, like a bunch of chords played on an external instrument, the sound lasts longer than the number of bars the notes are actually played. The sound doesn't die off the moment the new clip should start.

In Live getting this loop to repeat again and again in the arrange window, one needs to create two identical tracks. Then alternate the loop in each channel, so that the end of one clip overlaps with the next one's start.

In most other daws you can use the same channel/track. In live you have to use two tracks, or else the next clip inserted into the track overrides the previous one.

Obviously, one needs to have control over how the clips are merged. They can be crossfaded, which is useful for merging long ambient non looping clips or vocals, or directly summed. Most other DAWs allow this very easily.

This, of course, doesn't have any do to with the crossfade function in Live, so I'm not sure why that was brought up.

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:50 am

alls I know is that it's about damn time live put an animated spinning fan somewhere in there, and some patch cables that wiggle like real cables with you move them

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:30 am

dr.wackler wrote:
Pitch Black wrote:In Logic for me: the built-in instruments and plugins, and the automation. Both superb.
I have to disagree on the latter one. In Live, when I cut/copy/move parts, I can absolutely rely on the automation being intact after those actions.
In Logic however, automation gets messed up quite easily: It's said to be track based, but as soon as you have any automation breakpoints in an area where no region exists, watch out!

True, good Doctor!

I'd forgotten that little wrinkle. It does make it a pain to do major arrangement edits after you've put in a lot of automation. To get around that I draw an empty object into the arrange with the pencil tool to sit under any "free-floating" automation data, and Bob's your Uncle.