What "real daw" features is Live still missing?

[steff3]

The hole automation data editing is missing:
- being able to display multiple automation params per track in several lanes
- numerical input of node values
- transition characteristics / curve types
- (this could be there but did not find it) lock direction of point movement

then being able to control what gets displayed (which tracks as in PT and DP, etc.)
Auto Zoom selected track

a waveform display that does not die at -40dB - what are 32bit resolution worth if you cannot adjust edits and automation to signals below -40 dB?

a lot I think

[gnapier]

I'd really like to be able to see multiple automation curves superimposed on each other at the same time so that I can sync them up a bit more intuitively....sort of like the way Digital Performer has non-active curves faintly in the background. Real minor though.

Also, I'd like to see the video handling eventually evolve to be a bit more robust. LIVE would be such a killer for doing some true picture to sound work.

My $0.02.

-G

[Landser]

That's a good and informative thread for a potential Live user like me. Keep it coming!

[simpleton]

I fail to see why crossfading samples is so important, or how it has anything to do with what the crossfader in Live does.

This is why it is important to me. When you have a loop with a tail, like a bunch of chords played on an external instrument, the sound lasts longer than the number of bars the notes are actually played. The sound doesn't die off the moment the new clip should start.

In Live getting this loop to repeat again and again in the arrange window, one needs to create two identical tracks. Then alternate the loop in each channel, so that the end of one clip overlaps with the next one's start.

In most other daws you can use the same channel/track. In live you have to use two tracks, or else the next clip inserted into the track overrides the previous one.

Obviously, one needs to have control over how the clips are merged. They can be crossfaded, which is useful for merging long ambient non looping clips or vocals, or directly summed. Most other DAWs allow this very easily.

This, of course, doesn't have any do to with the crossfade function in Live, so I'm not sure why that was brought up.

I understand Anubis' point. Although the crossfader doesn't have anything to do with intra-track crossfading, the fact that they incorporated an ingenious crossfading feature yet left out a very basic crossfading function that's standard on most other DAWs is sheer stupidity.

[Tarekith]

Group tracks is one I miss a lot while doing mixdowns, being able to simultaneously lower all faders by "x dB" is a nice benefit in SX. I see folder tracks as an extension of this. Imagine being able to put a bunch of tracks in a folder, and then freeze that whole folder as one audio file

Crossfade support here too. It's not super critical, but I do find it useful and something I miss in Live. Especially when comping together things like guitar parts or basslines.

Track/mixer coloring. Just makes it easier to quickly find parts in projects that have a lot of tracks. I typically use the same color schemes in other DAWs, so my bassline are always purple, drums are blue, etc. Just an interface thing to speed up work flow and finding the tracks I want.

USER ASSIGNABLE KEY COMMANDS. This is probably my biggest wish, being able to assign menu commands to my own key preferences. Ditto on certain clip parameters. I've love a key command to turn on Reverse and flip between the warp modes in the currently selected clip.

Better sample editing, at least give us the option to fade in and fade out the beginning and end of clips. Not the auto fade button we have now, but user definable amounts.

I'd like to see the new library and project management functions streamlined a bit more. They work, but seem kinda clumsy to me. Too many buttons/options in the Manage project dialog, and the new Library stuff has caused issues for a lot of people it seems like.

[b0unce]

I fail to see why crossfading samples is so important, or how it has anything to do with what the crossfader in Live does.

This is why it is important to me. When you have a loop with a tail, like a bunch of chords played on an external instrument, the sound lasts longer than the number of bars the notes are actually played. The sound doesn't die off the moment the new clip should start.

In Live getting this loop to repeat again and again in the arrange window, one needs to create two identical tracks. Then alternate the loop in each channel, so that the end of one clip overlaps with the next one's start.

In most other daws you can use the same channel/track. In live you have to use two tracks, or else the next clip inserted into the track overrides the previous one.

Obviously, one needs to have control over how the clips are merged. They can be crossfaded, which is useful for merging long ambient non looping clips or vocals, or directly summed. Most other DAWs allow this very easily.

This, of course, doesn't have any do to with the crossfade function in Live, so I'm not sure why that was brought up.

I do the same thing in session view...two tracks/ clips alternating....which means if its a 4 bar loop with a tail...I turn it into an 8 bar loop, the last 4 bars being silence. duplicate it, and alternate....this allows me more precision...

but your proposed method sounds interesting too.....I'm kind of used to my method now tho

[sweetjesus]

aside from all thats mentioned already

- scoring
- surround pan
- sample, time & bpm grid modes
- pan & volume handles on arrange objects/clips
- more control of read ahead and other type of settings to optimize performance
- waveform monitoring
- scissors tool
- eraser tool
- shortcuts arent always predictable (must click somewhere on arrange screen before ctrl + b works after workin in certain areas of live)
- show/hide tracks
- OMF
- clip specific destructive effects
- its own sidechaining compressor
- midi data filtering
- event scripting
- instrument definition scripts
- timeline based clip timestretching
- transient detection
- efficient use of clip objects on screen
- user configurable layouts
- multiple monitor friendliness
- studio layout maps / routing setups (altho much better in 6)
- master automation track
- record on sound signal

[leisuremuffin]

- its own sidechaining compressor

just to be nit-picky ----> i'd like to make sure we say "dynamics" because it's more important to me that the gate has an external key input.

i just don't want to see the updates for live 7 and see external key for the comp and not the gate



.lm.

[snowtires]

-time signature automation
-manual keypad entry for velocity values / envelope points
-group tracks / track folders
-crossfading between samples
-dual monitor support
-mixer as its own separate plugin-style pop-up window
-master fader of each track raises and lowers volume automation points, without sending you into session mode
-selecting whether or not you want to record just audio or just the envelopes and NOT BOTH AT THE SAME TIME, EVERY SINGLE TIME. i think that's the most frustrating thing in the world, i can't count how many times i've had to create new tracks and bounce audio around just so i didn't record over envelope automation

[eddit]

I totally agree with the idea that Live is an incredible live production tool, that happens to be pretty good as a DAW as well. But just because something needs to be done well in a DAW, doesnt mean I don"t want those features in a live tool as well. I also spent many years in Logic, before my "awakening" There are just a few really nice keyboard shortcuts etc in the matrix / sequencing view (whatever you want to call it) that I miss in Live.

There's one I always find myself going for, it cuts the current note so that there is no overlap with the following note. I think the default was tab in Logic, thats where I had it anyway. Its all those little extra commands that remind you your sequencing in Live



We are not abou to get pages of mappable functions, but I think there are plenty of these small features, along with most of the items mentioned in this thread that would make Live an even better live production tool, and would also improve the DAW side of things as well

[longjohns]

This is why it is important to me. When you have a loop with a tail, like a bunch of chords played on an external instrument, the sound lasts longer than the number of bars the notes are actually played. The sound doesn't die off the moment the new clip should start.

In Live getting this loop to repeat again and again in the arrange window, one needs to create two identical tracks. Then alternate the loop in each channel, so that the end of one clip overlaps with the next one's start.

how about recording the loop for a ways into the 2nd pass, and setting the loop braces accordingly, (i.e. from 1.2.0 ... 2.2.0 )

[melocoton]

For the automation, additional modes like Logic's touch, latch, and write would be nice.

I would also love to see some kind of "Snapshot" automation feature. So let's say you want a sudden change in the mix at a certain bar. You could move faders and change effects without record being engaged. Then when you get it sounding how you want, move the cursor to the proper place in the timeline and select a "make snapshot" function that would essentially insert automation keyframes at that point for every parameter that has been changed.

A time indicator in Session is crucial to me as well.

Lots of other things I can't think of at the moment.

[jamester]

Excellent responses everybody - thanks!

A few things I hadn't thought about or come across yet in Live; definitely still some ways to go I suppose. It's interesting seeing Sonar now include their own "time stretching" type thing for "elastic audio"...I think the "trad daws" will continually adopt Live-type features, as Live continues to become more "daw-like".

It'll be interesting to watch as the two sides dovetail...

[ciw]

but ableton, if you're reading, before you implement all this (because let's face it everyone (myself included) would all like one or two of these features...)

BRING BACK THE STABILITY OF VERSION 4!!!

[Synthbuilder]

how about recording the loop for a ways into the 2nd pass, and setting the loop braces accordingly, (i.e. from 1.2.0 ... 2.2.0 )

I don't think this will allow the recorded tail to be superimposed at the start of the loop. I think all the second pass does is overwrite the other one.

You can do this sort of thing in a rendered loop though, but I don't think this applies to one that is being recorded from an external instrument or pre-recorded loop.