Time warping long samples

[Guest]

I'm trying to use ableton live to time warp a 4min breaks track @ 132bpm down to 127bpm (no transpose).

I'm finding that the results are -really- bad.

The process I'm using is this:

Create new Ableton Live set @ 127bpm
Switch to arrange mode.
Drag 132bpm sample into track 1.
Double click on sample in track 1.
Click warp.
Set orginal tempo to 132bpm.
Set a warp marker at end of track (already a warp marker at start of track).

When I click play, the playback is really choppy, almost sounds kinda stuttered. I'm using a G5 and have no other apps running, so there should be plenty of free resources.

Anyone got any suggestions? I've tried playing with the warp modes and their associated settings, but had no luck. =(

[Guest]

you need to put more warp markers than just the first and last one...
try unlocking all the markers and then just setting the first one...
then do a few bars after that. adjust as necessary. you may not even need to put any warp markers at all though if the track begins and ends evenly. ableton will do all the work for you in that case.

[robbmasters]

I can't see that adding more warp markers will help. That will make sure it's locked to the beat (which it may not be now) but won't improve audio quality. It should still play back about 4% slower, whether the original track is exactly 132 bpm all the way through or not.

What's it like at other tempos?

Much as I love Live, I do find that it's timestretching isn't always that great. For example, it's not a patch on my CD decks (which obviously have to time stretch in real time too). It can be especially bad when slowing stuff down (which is why I ask about other tempos).

Alternatively, is there any chance your latency could be set too low? I get similar results when mine is (albeit on a PC).

By the way, adding that last Warp marker shouldn't be necessary. Shouldn't hurt either though...

[Guest]

Thanks for your responses guys.

The original track is 132bpm all the way through, and it ends exactly on at the end of a bar, just to make things real easy for Live.

I actually did try putting warp markers at every 2nd bar throughout the track. It took ages to do, and did not help at all. =(

I'll give your latency suggestion a go & report back.

[Guest]

I just tried all sorts of buffer sizes in the audio tab inside preferences. I'm assuming that's what you meant by changing the latency?

Anyway. No luck.

I also found that speeding the track up (faster than it's original tempo) produced similarly undesireable results.

I thought Live was supposed to be good for this sort of thing? Is the problem that I'm using samples that are too long (4 mins)?

[nobbystylus]

i do this kind of thing all the time (use very long samples), and if you've done your warp markers correctly, then you should be able to get away with quite a few bpms difference, without noticeable loss of quality. I'd try turning off Warp, and starting again, making sure initially that your final warp marker is NOT turned on, setting your overall bpms to the bpm of the track (by tap tempo for eg) and just go through and do every 8 bars or whenever it looks like its slipping..

[robbmasters]

I just tried all sorts of buffer sizes in the audio tab inside preferences. I'm assuming that's what you meant by changing the latency?

Yes, the bigger the buffer the greater the latency - but the less likely you are to get this sort of problem (it's always a case of achieveing the right balance between the two).

I also found that speeding the track up (faster than it's original tempo) produced similarly undesireable results.

That makes it sound more like you do have a real problem, rather than just Live time stretching not being up to it.

I thought Live was supposed to be good for this sort of thing? Is the problem that I'm using samples that are too long (4 mins)?

Live is good at this sort of thing (although not perfect - especially when slowing down). Sample length should make no difference (I use long samples a lot too).

Have you had Live long? Do you get this problem all the time, or just with this one audio file?

Even if your warp markers are all over the place you shouldn't be getting this kind of problem (if I understand it correctly). The worst you should get is that it doesn't keep good time.

When you said originally that you "tried playing with the warp modes and their associated settings" I asume you mean you've tried it as both tones and beats (with different grain and quantise setting)?

[ethios4]

Have you tried loading the track into RAM? i haven't used the RAM option myself yet, but i'll try it too. Also, i've read that Live's timestretching is better in "Consolidate" than real-time. That might be a good experiment too, but probably not useful for live performance...

[gaspode]

If you've got your track set to an inappropriate beats setting it may cause strange artifacts in your clip.

I would also suggest trying the setting repitch and see if that helps.

[lucas_chan]

Have you had Live long? Do you get this problem all the time, or just with this one audio file?

I've only just started testing out Live. I thought I would put it through it's paces by putting together a small dj-style set of some of my work. Hence, trying to time warp a 4min breaks track.

When you said originally that you "tried playing with the warp modes and their associated settings" I asume you mean you've tried it as both tones and beats (with different grain and quantise setting)?

That is correct, yes.

Cheers.

Lucas

[lucas_chan]

Have you tried loading the track into RAM?

Yes, this didn't help. =(

Also, i've read that Live's timestretching is better in "Consolidate" than real-time. That might be a good experiment too, but probably not useful for live performance...

I read the manual, it suggest (as does the name) that consolidate works only if you have more than 1 track that you want to merge together.

For the purposes of trying to figure out this problem, my Live set just has 1 track in it with this 1 four minute sample, so consolidate is greyed out and not available to be selected.

Thanks.

Lucas

[lucas_chan]

If you've got your track set to an inappropriate beats setting it may cause strange artifacts in your clip.

Are you talking about BPM? I know the track is 132bpm, I produced it myself.

Or, are you talking about transients? I've tried all the transient settings too.

I would also suggest trying the setting repitch and see if that helps.

I would like to keep the track at it's current pitch, so I have the re-pitch setting set to on.

Cheers.

Lucas

[bensuthers]

if you change to RePitch does it still stutter at all?

if so, you got something wrong that's not Live!

[robbmasters]

Since it's your own track, can you provide a link to it? Happy to test it here and see if I get the same problems.

[serotoninsteve]

Create new Ableton Live set @ 127bpm
Switch to arrange mode.

Hello,
If you want that your track is warped at the right BPM witout adjusting any warp markers create a new Live set @ 132 BPM (and not 127), drag your track into Live, it will play at its original speed.
Stay in session view for now.
When you press warp now your track will be warped at 132 BPM but the sound quality does not change.
If Live has created a warp marker at the end, delete it and adjust only your 1st marker (the only marker now, clips BPM does stay 132BPM) to your first beat and when your track is straight in BPM it should work.
Check out with the clicktrack if your song plays in sync, it should do.
Perhaps go trough your track and set a few markers, but only if you see that some beats are not matching the markers(often after breaks and fills).
Now save the clips settings and adjust Live´s tempo to your desired 127 BPM. When switching now between Beats, tones and repitch mode there are minimal differences in sound quality, but no stuttering for a 5 BPM difference from your original tempo.
If this does not work check with a simple 1bar loop! Does it work for short samples?
I always warp my tracks like this and I´m sure it works, even if you don´t know your original BPM you can tap in your tempo with the clicktrack switched on while your track plays not warped yet, Live shows your tracks BPM as it´s global tempo!
Let me know if it works now.
Greetings!