MIDI Sync to External sequencer

[TOTAL]

Hi

I synchonize a hardware sequencer (Yamaha RM1x) with my computer system (Live 5.2, Audiophile 2496).

I do it this way:
RM1x clock sync set to internal
in Live EXT switched on. Since now the BPM settings in both devices are the same.

In DMA Buffer Size settings of the Audiophile card I chose the lowest possible latency - 64 samples, but the delay of the first note in what Live records from RM1x is still 1.2.2 bars at BPM 96 (1/16 note!).
setting Live's Latency (in preferences, audiocard's input) to max (-300ms) reduces this delay by 25%.

changing Timecode offset doesn't give any changes. RM1x's MTC start offset, even at very high settings does not do either

What to do?

I expected using a midi connection would guarantee perfect sync.

Quantize does not do if the original material is with some groove, which is the case here.

Syncyng RM1x to Live does not change anything - the first note gets recorded 1/16 of bar too late.




Thanks in advance.

T

[cosmosuave]

You need to be using the midi delay option it is outlined in the manual on how to perform this..

[TOTAL]

As I said,
setting Live's Latency (in preferences, audiocard's input) to max (-300ms) reduces this existing delay by 25%.

Are we talking about the same setting?

[Clearscreen]

i've found it's better to sync the external machine to lives output midi clock, as if you go the other way live doesn't do PDC (plugin delay compensation) and channel delays. REALLY annoying!!

[TOTAL]

I have tried doing this. The same result

[kineticUk]

Syncyng RM1x to Live does not change anything - the first note gets recorded 1/16 of bar too late.

Check lessons ... the problem with the offset can be sorted out.
Live can compensate for slight latencies but you need to look at the lessons and set it to do so.
Its all there, one of the lessons is named something like audio driver latency settings.
As long as you do this you can at least get straight recordings no matter the samplerate buffersize etc.
Its help menu, lessons.

[Clearscreen]

you say

RM1x clock sync set to internal

&

changing Timecode offset doesn't give any changes.

which makes me think that your sending midiclock from the rm1x and lives expecting to receive miditimecode (MTC), which are incompatible. check that they are both using either midiclock or MTC maybe? sorry if you've already checked this but sometimes the simplest things are worth double checking...

as far as latency goes , sending clock from live to my monomachine gets them both in sync perfectly with about a -78ms clock sync delay, but as i said the lack of pdc when using clock from the monomahcine means i can't get them to sync really...

also, do you have any other midi i/o's you can test this with as it seems that different interfaces can give wildly different results with sync delay in my experience.

[kineticUk]

Right here goes ...
1.First off all devices to be synced should be set to send/receive midi clock (MTC don't get good results myself and I never use this, its rough timing for film not beats??).

2.RM1x should be set to receive midi clock from live (Set it to sync to ext)

3.Go to lessons (Help Menu ?) Audio driver Latency compensation (?) You'll see the one I mean.

4.Open the lesson ... It guides you through manually compensating for unreported latencies of the audio drivers, and involves setting files so that they record without offset.

5.Live is not gonna sync to RM1x so do not engage EXT on Live

6.When you press play in live, RM1x sequencer will receive clock start. And play.

7.If you want to record and have the latency compensations (You set in the lesson earlier) automatically sort your recordings out, you must set monitor on the track you record on to off. Otherwise you will have no compensation anyway.

8.You can still listen by monitoring the signal from another track, while the other records with compensation. Thus perfect cut loops (As perfect as you can get).

No problems here, Machinedrum ES1 Rolands etc setup to sync to ext clock and all recordings are never missing first beat or bits of the first beat.
Read the lesson.
Hope this helps.

[TOTAL]

Thanks guys for all your replies. I will read through, do the tests and write back.

Best,

T

[TOTAL]

Back with the news. they are rather loose observations. looks like I have made it, but some new problem has arised.

should you have any comments, pls write.

at buffer=512 samples setting asio card's overall latency to nearly 70 ms does the job - without Quantize Recorded the first recorded notes are perfectly on time.

(NB 70 is for me surprisingly much at Buffer Size being 512 samples and output and input latency both 12,3ms. Instead of compensations with the negative equivalent of 12,3 or 24,6 (being the sum of both input and output) I added 49ms more. But I might miss some knowledge. At buffer size=64 samples the overall latency had to be 32,3).

This in turn makes another issue more apparent (something I have had some feeling of before), i.e. the recorded bar is shorter than the Live's 1 bar frame. Result: the first notes of the next bar to come get caught within the last recorded bar. Unless I'm wrong, the clocks are getting apart..

The clock settings:
Live's EXT is off
Rm1x's clock is set to MIDI (external).

The rm1x does behave as slave - waits for Live to trigger PLAY and responds to Live's tempo changes.

WTF?

I imagine that MIDI clock is not just START, STOP and messages like: "switch your internal clock to 96 BPM".

Can you help this? How to make the two devices have BARs of exactly the same absolute length?


Another interesting thing, Cubase SX1, when set as master of RM1x, having itself no delay compensation (I guess it was introduces in sx2) it records slaved RM1x with 4ms delay.

Still another thing, for the first time in my life I have a suspicion that having some applications running in the background may result in midi being unpredictible. So far I have been using VST, where it did not matter at all. Here, in hardware midi communication - it does.