will reason ever work with vst's?

2kilo · Post by **2kilo** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:32 pm

I was under the impression that Steinberg owned Reason...
-therefore they would never allow vst/audio recording in Reason...
-would want you to buy Cubase instead... not compete with it...

sqook · Post by **sqook** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:55 pm

Steinberg does not own reason (or propellerheads, for that matter). However, the release of reason 3.0 made it very clear that propellerheads has no intention of implementing recording, VST support, AU support, or any of that jazz into their product. They are now comfortably riding on their die-hard users who will never switch to other software products, so they don't see any need to implement features like this.

solar28 · Post by **solar28** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:39 pm

still agree w/ some posters that the real solution for props is to allow a subset of reason to be accessed as a vst/vsti. In other words give me the combinator/subtractor/maelstrom/ etc all the devices -- that just run as a virtual "rack". Then you don't need rewire -- just fire up vsti/load a combinator/etc and just go.

Meanwhile, props just keep their stand alone app as it is, with any new features they want to add, etc.

Audio in? No longer necessary -- just load the vst version and treat your audio with reason effects or effects combis.

reason need not worry about supporting vst or vsti within their system -- christ just use whatever host you want and bring the reason instruments into it rather than vice versa.

I see everybody winning -- except those that want to use reason and reason only. But why? I'm sure by now if they wanted to use vst and audio in so bad they would have moved on to another host anyway and did the rewire bit.

I'm sure it'd be a lot of work -- but I don't see how the props would lose by making it SUPER EASY for every one to access the power of reason easier than rewire, as quickly as firing up a vsti. And since we know what people are paying for samplers like Kontakt, imagine what people would pay for all the incredible power of reason as a super slick, low cpu overhead mega vsti. I'd be all over it. And w/ vsti 3 they'll even be able to add/remove outputs dynamically in case, you wanted to -- hell -- I DON'T KNOW -- treat every device within your combi as a separate output in live. Or just treat one of the devices as a separate output in live. That makes it super easy to i.e. throw vintage warmer on top of maelstrom within a combi, etc.

Just my 10 cents.

Johnisfaster · Post by **Johnisfaster** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:41 pm

brightonalex wrote:Why don't they update their instruments for reason users, but release old versions of them as VSTs? They they'd get extra money from people buying VSTs, but still sell updated versions of Reason to cmmitted reason-users.

not exactly what you're looking for but I read somewhere that microtonic was created by one of the reason dudes. so you can kinda get a reason sound using it from what I've heard from it. but it doesn't exactly sound like subtractor or malstrom...

Adonis · Post by **Adonis** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:34 pm

No they wont, and doubt they ever will

why would they?

the program works just fine the way it is. Countless records, commercials, film scores and releases have been done with just REASON

plus as someone stated they have an amazingly insane userbase (following)

so if it's working fine the way it is why change it?

I bet this question could be better answered on the http://propellerheads.se forum

I've seen a thread or two on the subject

late

a

ewistrand · Post by **ewistrand** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:41 pm

sqook wrote:Steinberg does not own reason (or propellerheads, for that matter). However, the release of reason 3.0 made it very clear that propellerheads has no intention of implementing recording, VST support, AU support, or any of that jazz into their product. They are now comfortably riding on their die-hard users who will never switch to other software products, so they don't see any need to implement features like this.

Steinberg WAS the distributor for Propellerheads when Reason (and hence ReWire) first hit the market. A no competition agreement could very well be involved here.

ew

JahGuide · Post by **JahGuide** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:47 pm

I hope they never implement VST or Audio recording into reason. Thats what we have Live for. Reason is excellent the way it is, low cpu, easy to navigate around and most of all incredible stability, it has never ever crashed on me. People can never be satisfied I tell you.

sqook · Post by **sqook** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:27 pm

JahGuide wrote:I hope they never implement VST or Audio recording into reason. Thats what we have Live for. Reason is excellent the way it is, low cpu, easy to navigate around and most of all incredible stability, it has never ever crashed on me. People can never be satisfied I tell you.

What should happen to reason is for it to become a VST itself... it would be nice if the props split off all the machines in reason and sold them separately as VST instruments. The reason sequencer is downright terrible, and one of the greatest weaknesses of the program... however, many of the instruments like the redrum and maelstrom are widely known and used for their great sounds. I have a feeling that, however, the way that they are programmed would make this difficult to do.

sqook · Post by **sqook** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:30 pm

ewistrand wrote:
sqook wrote:Steinberg does not own reason (or propellerheads, for that matter). However, the release of reason 3.0 made it very clear that propellerheads has no intention of implementing recording, VST support, AU support, or any of that jazz into their product. They are now comfortably riding on their die-hard users who will never switch to other software products, so they don't see any need to implement features like this.
Steinberg WAS the distributor for Propellerheads when Reason (and hence ReWire) first hit the market. A no competition agreement could very well be involved here.

ew

Very interesting; I didn't know this. If anything, I'd think that their partnership would have some type of exclusivity thing with VST (ie, Reason being able to run as a Cubase-only VST), but I guess this obviously wasn't the case.

jb61264 · Post by **jb61264** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:55 pm

solar28 wrote:still agree w/ some posters that the real solution for props is to allow a subset of reason to be accessed as a vst/vsti. In other words give me the combinator/subtractor/maelstrom/ etc all the devices -- that just run as a virtual "rack". Then you don't need rewire -- just fire up vsti/load a combinator/etc and just go.

I guess there are two questions out there...

1. why can't I load a vst into reason? I can't figure out why anyone would want to load a VST "into" Reason...really no need with the addition of the MClass Mastering tools that were added in v3.

2. why can't I load a Reason instrument as a VST into my application? This would be very nice but will never happen as it would scavenge their own sales of the complete Reason package and go against their marketing stragegy. It would probably piss off ALL of their current customer base if they made this happen and personally, I hope they don't from a selfish point of view that keeps certain sounds unique to my songs versus someone who doesn't use Reason.

Just throwing that out there for discussion...throw darts at will

Michael Hatsis · Post by **Michael Hatsis** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:24 pm

Dont think making VSTs of reason devices would benefit the props sales whatsoever. There are so many VSTs out there and i dont think the ones in Reason are anything special( though i use and love reason all the time ) I think the beauty of reason is the way it is integrated and how the devices work as a whole as a self contained project ( just thought id point out that the seq is god aweful ). Also, i gott say that even though lots of hardcore Live users are using reason less and less these days ( myself included ) more and more people every day are just getting into reason.

Would love to see reason ( as awhole ) available as a VST. But again if they did this it would be a pretty big blow to their own rewire protocol. Again these are just opinions.

kineticUk · Post by **kineticUk** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:47 pm

I just think reason is fun and I like it how it is...
Theres alot to like, I was just messin about with it the other day using their dr.rex thing. Although I have never been a reason head, I really like propellerheads and its great that they make such stable software (and are willing to do their own thing...keeping it stable). I should use it more and put some time into learning it.
As for the audio point, I have always used audio in it by loading it into the devices which allow audio (Samplers,dr.rex,drummachine).
For me its just something like a rack of other instruments which you can mess about with, until you make something nice. Then bounce it out or save the project and rewire. (I personally just bounce anything I've made that sounds good and use it in my other programs). I really need to get into it and start patching the stuff for weird sounds as this seems very powerful.
I'm not bothered about the vst thing, but it would be nice if there was a way for rewired projects to automatically load the reason project when its used that way.
(I am sure there is a sequencer that does that though)
Then I would use it loads more.

jb61264 · Post by **jb61264** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:07 pm

kineticUk wrote:I just think reason is fun and I like it how it is...
Theres alot to like, I was just messin about with it the other day using their dr.rex thing.

If you want some files to use while you play around with Dr. Rex...here is a bunch of free stuff as .rex and .wav.

http://www.loopmasters.com/FreeSampleSignup.asp

D DAS · Post by **D DAS** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:47 pm

sorry to post with out reading every post, but i am at work and i just watched the latest promo video for reason on the propellerheads website, the one with the guy from black eyed peas, and they plainly state that reason is the perfect tool to use in conjunction with your favorite daw. It says something to the tone of "if you want to add some vocals or some instruments to your reason song simple rewire it to your favorite daw" so by hearing this I would say no, they will not implement those features to it. bummer i know, but thankfully we have live.

RawTheory · Post by **RawTheory** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:21 am

I've been using Reason for going on 3 1/2 years and honestly, I'm done with it. I was a die hard user but after getting Stylus RMX, Redrum and Reason Drum kits became redundant. I was still using Reason as a Synth workstation but now I have all the Spectrasonics products (Atmosphere, Trilogy) and NI's Massive. These Instruments plugged into Live eclipse reason as a workstation synth. Reason is verstile but the whole rack emulation thing is tired and I'm tired of dealing with the cables. Yeah the CV's are cool, but I've found that Reason, even with the combinator takes work to get the sound you want and then a degree of external processing to fatten the sounds. All work that I'd rather commit to writing songs and these new VST's are allowing my workflow to "flow" like it never did with reason. The sound quality also eclipses Reason. I might still use reason for the Orkester sound bank and maybe some of the factory sounds but thats it and then only until I purchase some vst's for those purposes. I think Reason is great for learning the ropes and you can push it to making great music, but I'm done making compromises with it.