ot..... The Dumbocrats and Repugnicans show. Too F'd up ?

[knotkranky]

e4 and mah, well put.

Ya know after all the political debate about this shit. Many of us were right in the end and validated by the polls. And now our wishes to string them up are coming true. I'm gonna go get some ice cream.

[ruprecht]

I believe, in all aspects of life, if you cannot offer an alternative then you have no right to criticize something. I know this sounds extreme at first glance but it's not.

This is a backwards notion if ever I read one. Deconstruction and intelligent critique are potential methods of improvement, even in the absence of a tangible alternative. Someone who has been subjected to oppression all their lives, for example, still has a right to desire change or revolution, despite the lack of a capacity to truly understand what an alternative might be.

It's not backwards. Just a little counterintuitive.

Criticism with no alternative is really just an old debate trick. It allows you to attack with no chance of being counterattacked. It's impossible to lose a debate when you have no position. But, it's also worthless. You can go around all day criticising everything in sight as long as you don't have to offer an alternative. It's easy. If one of your criticisms is debunked you just find another one. Virtually all ideas can be criticized when there is no comparative context. So, what value does such criticism have? I could criticize the light bulb all day long if I don't have to offer an alternative. I mean it burns out and needs to be replaced. Those are faults. You can't disagree that light bulbs would be much better if they didn't burn out. But, in reality this criticism isn't so important because the alternatives have more serious faults. A comparative context is essential for determing the value of ideas. You must weigh the alternatives. There is no such thing as a perfect course of action in real life. It all comes down to the best choice of the viable alternatives.

Now, while simply spending all day criticising the light bulb is useless spending all day trying to improve it is another story. That is highly useful and is the antithesis of unsupported criticism.

[pilcrow]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6137082.stm

no comment

[forge]

There was a cool interview on telly here last night

the former Premier of New South Wales (the state Sydney's in - premier is state leader - like your governor - although we have governor's but ceremonial...anyway)

He was talkign about what it all means - and he was saying how it's likely the Iraq war will end up in the same kind of "helicopters on the rooftops" way as vietnam

he was saying there is all likelihood Bush will go down as worst president in US history - and not just for Iraq

one of the main points was the recent report Tony Blair has been talking about about the environment - and he said GWB will not only be judged for causing the mess in Iraq, but the biggest problem the future faces is the crisis of climate change and the 8 years of Bush will be seen as a terrible waste of time the planet really couldnt afford - and he will be largely blamed for that

no doubt, Bush is at the beginning of his end and my only sadness is the American people who didnt see it sooner

The future looks pretty grim - because even those countries that wont be directly affected by the rise in sea level, will be overrun with MILLIONS of refugees from places like bangladesh etc that will simply disappear

[sqook]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6137082.stm

no comment

It's ok to agree with your enemy sometimes... only a fool would act completely contrary to an enemy just because you're at war with them. What's important is that we disagree on things that are actually worthy of fighting over (ie, jihadism).

[muscleandhate]

I believe, in all aspects of life, if you cannot offer an alternative then you have no right to criticize something. I know this sounds extreme at first glance but it's not.

This is a backwards notion if ever I read one. Deconstruction and intelligent critique are potential methods of improvement, even in the absence of a tangible alternative. Someone who has been subjected to oppression all their lives, for example, still has a right to desire change or revolution, despite the lack of a capacity to truly understand what an alternative might be.

It's not backwards. Just a little counterintuitive.

Criticism with no alternative is really just an old debate trick. It allows you to attack with no chance of being counterattacked. It's impossible to lose a debate when you have no position. But, it's also worthless. You can go around all day criticising everything in sight as long as you don't have to offer an alternative. It's easy. If one of your criticisms is debunked you just find another one. Virtually all ideas can be criticized when there is no comparative context. So, what value does such criticism have? I could criticize the light bulb all day long if I don't have to offer an alternative. I mean it burns out and needs to be replaced. Those are faults. You can't disagree that light bulbs would be much better if they didn't burn out. But, in reality this criticism isn't so important because the alternatives have more serious faults. A comparative context is essential for determing the value of ideas. You must weigh the alternatives. There is no such thing as a perfect course of action in real life. It all comes down to the best choice of the viable alternatives.

Now, while simply spending all day criticising the light bulb is useless spending all day trying to improve it is another story. That is highly useful and is the antithesis of unsupported criticism.

Firstly, there is truth that a comparative context can determine the value of ideas, insofar as you believe that the human mind lacks a capacity to comprehend that which it has no experience of. I think this is a problematic concept for a number of reasons.

Secondly, I think using the example of a light bulb is an oversimplification of the subject matter. Things are not that black and white, for example; Johnny only ever lived within a capitalist society and could provide no substantive alternative, but still had a right to challenge his oppression and exploitation.

[M. Bréqs]

For the Republican side, the current front-runners seem to be:

John McCain
Mitt Romney
Rudy Giulliani

Condi Rice might be a possibility against Hillary. The theory being this:
...
But realistically, I think it will be Mitt Romney or Rudy Giulliani.

I'm curious why you don't think John McCain can take it. He's a solid guy.

Here's a few scenarios:

1. Republicans go for Character and Leadership:
The Republicans could nominate their heaviest hitters, and best leaders... John McCain for Pres with Rudy Guillani as running mate - possibly (though not likely) an inversion of the two.

2. The Democrats pander to Racial / Gender politics:
The Dems could seek to double-end the race/sex vote, nominating Hillary with Barak Obama as running mate.

3. Republicans pull out the Race / Sex counterweapon:
Condi as a running mate to any other nominee

4. Dems go Green:
Gore nominated for Pres (again) with Hillary as running mate... This one creates a problem for the Republicans, they don't have a solid counter to the Democratic stance on the environment...

It's really a question of strategy. Whoever nominates first will be at the disadvantage, as the other will get to pick a "neutralizing" pair and match their strengths to the weakness of the other party.

My $0.02

[smutek]

November 14th

Justice Dept: Immigrants Can Be Indefinitely Held Without Trial

The Bush administration argued on Monday that the government can indefinitely jail immigrants in the United States and prevent them from ever challenging their detention in civilian courts. The Justice Department is claiming that the recently signed Military Commissions Act applies not only to detainees in Guantanamo Bay but also to any foreigner detained in the United States on suspicion of terrorism. The attorney Jonathan Hafetz said this means any noncitizen can be whisked off at night and be put in detention. The Justice Department also claimed on Monday that hundreds of lawsuits by prisoners at Guantanamo should be thrown out because they no longer have the right to challenge their detentions in civilian courts.

---------------

House Passes the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act

The House has passed the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act despite opposition from dozens of organizations including the National Lawyers Guild, Humane Society and Natural Resources Defense Council. The bill makes it a felony for animal rights activists to engage in non-violent protests that result in businesses losing money. Legal experts say a protester could be charged with terrorism if they engaged in a sit-in that caused a business to lose profits. Congressman Dennis Kucinich said the law would have a chilling effect on non-violent protest. Kucinich said the country has to be very careful of painting everyone with a broad brush of terrorism.

------

Police State?

[DeadlyKungFu]

November 14th

Justice Dept: Immigrants Can Be Indefinitely Held Without Trial

House Passes the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act

Police State?

The 2nd case is an extension of the old restraint of trade act, put up in the 19th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restraint_of_trade

The 1st instance is a result of the Bush years, government rights over civil rights in the name of terrorism, fear and manipulation.

Bush is a lame duck, we have to hang tight and wait for some of this shit to unravel, I can't but think things will get better. <there's flamebait for the neo cons up in here>

Hang tight, good looking out.

[knotkranky]

November 14th

Justice Dept: Immigrants Can Be Indefinitely Held Without Trial

The Bush administration argued on Monday that the government can indefinitely jail immigrants in the United States and prevent them from ever challenging their detention in civilian courts. The Justice Department is claiming that the recently signed Military Commissions Act applies not only to detainees in Guantanamo Bay but also to any foreigner detained in the United States on suspicion of terrorism. The attorney Jonathan Hafetz said this means any noncitizen can be whisked off at night and be put in detention. The Justice Department also claimed on Monday that hundreds of lawsuits by prisoners at Guantanamo should be thrown out because they no longer have the right to challenge their detentions in civilian courts.

---------------

House Passes the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act

The House has passed the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act despite opposition from dozens of organizations including the National Lawyers Guild, Humane Society and Natural Resources Defense Council. The bill makes it a felony for animal rights activists to engage in non-violent protests that result in businesses losing money. Legal experts say a protester could be charged with terrorism if they engaged in a sit-in that caused a business to lose profits. Congressman Dennis Kucinich said the law would have a chilling effect on non-violent protest. Kucinich said the country has to be very careful of painting everyone with a broad brush of terrorism.

------

Police State?

HOLY SHIT!!! are fucking kidding me! This better be in the major news outlets tomorrow.
Good god, what to do? We all saw this coming speculating the patriot act would be abused. But damn!! Thanks smu. Police state is right and why don't the majors have this up yet?

We really need the sixties again right now. Let them arrest everybody. I wish I had the energy to read up tonight. Been a long week and it's too hard to keep up with these fuckers.

nighty








Shit.

[Meef Chaloin]

jesus. i thought things were meant to be getting better

[knotkranky]

jesus. i thought things were meant to be getting better

Well, unfortunately we'll be living with all of the FU administration's handy work for many decades to come. I don't think things will get better in so much as things will be more difficult for the current fuckheads to do more damage. Too bad though, a lot of the stuff they've pulled off will never be reversed and will cascade into other domino's. A great fundamental part of what makes this country so cool seems to have been too abused to make a descent comeback anytime soon. More than two more years left with bush? Hell try the next 100 years in fallout.

[subterFUSE]

jesus. i thought things were meant to be getting better

Well, unfortunately we'll be living with all of the FU administration's handy work for many decades to come. I don't think things will get better in so much as things will be more difficult for the current fuckheads to do more damage. Too bad though, a lot of the stuff they've pulled off will never be reversed and will cascade into other domino's. A great fundamental part of what makes this country so cool seems to have been too abused to make a descent comeback anytime soon. More than two more years left with bush? Hell try the next 100 years in fallout.

Good news.

Hoyer just beat Murtha for House Majority leader. (Sigh of relief)

[knotkranky]

jesus. i thought things were meant to be getting better

Well, unfortunately we'll be living with all of the FU administration's handy work for many decades to come. I don't think things will get better in so much as things will be more difficult for the current fuckheads to do more damage. Too bad though, a lot of the stuff they've pulled off will never be reversed and will cascade into other domino's. A great fundamental part of what makes this country so cool seems to have been too abused to make a descent comeback anytime soon. More than two more years left with bush? Hell try the next 100 years in fallout.

Good news.

Hoyer just beat Murtha for House Majority leader. (Sigh of relief)

what can you do

[ethios4]

Just talked with a friend who is on the jury of a trial of a person who was arrested for sending a letter to the president (Bush) telling him what a sorry person he is and that he should die. No threats of any kind, just that he should die. It's great that the guy is getting a trial, but on the flip side of American justice, it would cost the guy an arm and a leg for a decent lawyer and so he's going without...whatdya think his chances are?

I'm surprised the ACLU isn't on this yet.

Free speech anyone?

Well, it turns out this guy was just crazy. He acted as his own defense attorney, and his defense for writing a letter to Bush with such phrases as "Die, Bush, Die!" and "You will die soon!" was that he didn't say when or where he was going to kill Bush, so therefore it wasn't a threat. Needless to say, he was quickly convicted of threatening the President, with a recommendation that he receive psychological treatment.

He could have always said it was German for "The, Bush, The"