MIDI Foot Control Help

shredwings · Post by **shredwings** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 12:36 am

i have used an old rockman midipedal that doesn't have an "on/off mode" to control samples in Live 6 using bome's midi translator. you need the freeware programs midi ox and midi yoke first; they are what allow you to map to the translator. once i mapped to the translator, i turned the old program gibberish into keystrokes, which work in Live. just open the midi yoke port in Live.
these programs are negligent, so they do not add any visible workload to your pc.

now that i have a mac, i need to find similar software to redo my setup.

shredwings · Post by **shredwings** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:45 am

Mac Setup redone:
there's a free download called midipipe that works in the same manner as the 3 programs needed for pc.
all of this isn't as hard as it seems, i think it's just the lack of information/someone holding my hand that makes it seem hard at first.

basics:
1. message is sent from controller to computer
2. computer needs to translate message for Live 6
a. (PC) midi ox and yoke pick up that message and send to Bome's for translation
(Mac) midipipe receives signal
b. (PC) use Bome's to translate signal to keystroke
(Mac) midipipe translates signal to on or off signal
3. translation needs to get to Live:
(PC) midi yoke port is used as midi input in Live's preferences
(Mac) midipipe port is used as midi input in Live's preferences
4. samples (or whatever) are assigned within Live
(PC) the Key Map Mode is used
(Mac) the Midi Map Mode is used

mbenigni · Post by **mbenigni** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:46 am

Well, I'll be damned, bomes did the trick. And wouldn't you know it, the Control 8 was sitting on my doorstep when I got home tonight. Sigh.

Anyhow, many thanks to you guys for getting me up to speed, esp. Tone Deft. Turns out this can be done using nothing but the latest beta of Bomes Pro. Just run it, map the 4 P.C. messages to keystrokes, and leave it running in the background.

Because the FB4 sends out a bunch of junk prior to the PC message, you can't use the MIDI capture in Bomes. Instead type the codes in by hand as follows:

button 1: C0 01
button 2: C0 02
button 3: C0 03
button 4: C0 04

I designated these as 'Z', 'X', 'C', and 'V' respectively and mapped them in Live, and voila.

Meanwhile, ironically, the Control 8 arrived and is about a quarter the weight and half the size of the FCB1010. I haven't tested it yet, but it looks like it might be ideal. Can't imagine why these have been discontinued (if that's the case, all I know for sure is they are scarce.) But SubQ you might want to consider this also - they are in stock for $119 IIRC, at 8th street music:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?Pr ... ontrollers

A few days ago I didn't even know this product existed. Now it's sitting next to me. The only downside is it requires use of an AC adaptor, but I'm probably going to try hotwiring it for a 9V battery sooner or later.

Thanks again! Incredibly useful thread!!!

mbenigni · Post by **mbenigni** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:33 pm

Ah crikey. Stop the presses. Do not buy the Control 8 on the basis of the above recommendation without first considering this: as it turns out, it only sends Program Change messages (useless as we know) or Continuous Controller messages. In the latter mode, it only sends them in latch mode, so if you want a single footswitch to consistently press an AbeLive button, you are SOL without another bit of middleware. Grr.

And speaking of middleware, I thought I was out of the woods with Bomes last night, but as it turned out, if I use Bomes to get my footswitch working right on my MIDI device, that device becomes useless for anything else - little things like, for instance, transmitting music. Not sure whether there is some way to wire this back to life with the virtual ins and outs, I haven't been able to figure this out yet.

So yesterday I went from 0 solutions, to 2 solutions, to 0 solutions (for the millionth time.) I went to bed with smoke coming out my ears.

I have to ask the obvious question now, having run out of steam chasing my tail around: WHY HASN'T ABLETON, IN THE COURSE OF 6 VERSIONS, DEALT WITH RECIEVING PROGRAM CHANGE MESSAGES??? This would seem to be the real problem, and the right way to go about solving it.

I just can't believe how near-impossible it is to get a floorboard other than the FCB1010 Boat Anchor From Hell to talk to AbeLive. Absurd!

I think I'll start a new thread even.

losman69 · Post by **losman69** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:15 pm

Sup Dudes?

Here's a little update...

I was farting around some more with my pod set-up and i discovered that i can also use the nobs on the kidney bean unit as rotary controllers. So that gets me 7 stomp button controls, 2 expression peds, and 7 knobs to jack things up with.

Looks like this old lemon still has some juice to squeeze yet.

ROCK-ON!!!

mbenigni · Post by **mbenigni** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:56 pm

Holy crap, losman, that is brilliant! It didn't even occur to me that I could use the controls on the top of my Flextone as a mixing surface!!!

Now, if I could just figure out how to use Bomes properly... Is it possible to get Bomes to convert some MIDI messages to keystrokes, but somehow pass other MIDI along untouched to Live? Is setting the output to "[Device Name] Virtual Out" and then turning on "[Device Name] Virtual In" in Live's preferences the solution?

Can't decide whether I'm "this close" or stuck in a dead end again...

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 7:03 pm

i use a yamaha MFC-10 pedal, like it alot, it can send program changes or notes, can toggle or not, etc., so it works pretty well with live without any translation (though i too would like to be able to use program changes).

mbenigni · Post by **mbenigni** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:00 pm

The Yamaha looks nice, but like the Behringer, too big (and unlike the Behringer, too expensive.)

Just got my Evolution X-Session in the mail, so it occurs to me: I can run my Guitar's MIDI out to the X-Session IN, run those both to Live, and run the Control 8 to the Audio Kontrol 1 running into Bomes, converting all that to keyboard commands. Ugh, I'm making myself dizzy.

dj superflat · Post by **dj superflat** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:28 am

yeah, even if it's not that much of a pain at the end of the day, all the workarounds can make you head spin. (i got the yamaha because the build quality seemed way better and unlike the voodoo, it's got built in pedal.)

mbenigni · Post by **mbenigni** » Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:17 pm

I hear ya on the Yamaha, DJ. I like their gear almost across the board. Good stuff, and often real good bang for the buck. I even ride a Yamaha motorcycle.

Anywhooo... back to the madness.

The Evolution showed up and yes it's cheesy but it is fine. No drivers required for XP - now that's what I'm talking about! The really good news is that it freed up another MIDI input, so I can fiddle with Bomes and get things right, without mussing up my proper "music" MIDI path.

I actually got Bomes working right with the Control 8 in CC mode. The trick is simply to match both the CC on and CC off messages to the same keystroke. Really, not so bad. But here's the rub (it's ALWAYS something):

There's a bug in Ableton Live. If you specify exclusive record arming in preferences (or by right-clicking) it works fine with the mouse. But if you assign keystrokes (or, probably, MIDI events) to drive those buttons, exclusive doesn't work. So a guitarist using different tracks to simulate the "channels" of an amplifier, just as one example, is hosed if he tried to set up a footswitch (which is what I've been trying to do for the past two pages of babble.)

You can test this one yourself very easily, using just the keyboard. Note that Exclusive Solo button preference, by contrast, works properly whether you use the mouse or assigned keys. These should be consistent.

So, you say, why not just use the Solo button instead (it's ALWAYS something) because the Solo button will mute not only other "Auto" tracks, but also other "In" tracks, and I have synth tracks that need to be engaged regardless of the audio track selected with the footswitch.

This one's going to Abe support, but I doubt it will be a very high priority for them. Arghhh!!!

losman69 · Post by **losman69** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:37 am

an interesting discovery on my frankenpod set up...

If i program a clip start for a midi clip, i can start and stop automatically with the same button.

if I map the start control to an audio clip, the clip will only start when the button is pressed.

Any insight? Remember i am a MIDI retard so 'splain it good!!!

peskatore · Post by **peskatore** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 4:34 pm

Has anyone used a Roland PK-5 MIDI foot controller to control Live? I remembered that I had one in the basement that's been down there for years. Cleaned it up, plugged a power cord in and ... works like a charm. There are a few other MIDI functions on there that I haven't figured out yet (no manual) but it sends note data great. It's like having ten sets of 13 switches (10 octaves, 13 notes/pedals per octave). Some drawbacks are: 1. it's heavy and clumsy to carry. 2. there isn't an expression pedal insert for volume or cc control.

Would anyone know how to get an expression pedal to work with this? Either thru MIDI with some sort of box in the chain or with a modification to the PK-5 itself. It only has MIDI in/out/thru

Peskatore

mbenigni · Post by **mbenigni** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:25 pm

peskatore wrote:1. it's heavy and clumsy to carry. 2. there isn't an expression pedal insert for volume or cc control.

3. Expensive. But you can also use it to perform bass lines, of course.

peskatore wrote:Would anyone know how to get an expression pedal to work with this? Either thru MIDI with some sort of box in the chain or with a modification to the PK-5 itself. It only has MIDI in/out/thru

Peskatore

Short of this, no: http://www.midisolutions.com/prodped.htm

SubQ · Post by **SubQ** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:04 pm

oh, how long...

But SubQ you might want to consider this also - they are in stock for $119 IIRC, at 8th street music:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?Pr ... ontrollers

M, can you post the name of the product? the link is no longer available.

I was farting around some more with my pod set-up and i discovered that i can also use the nobs on the kidney bean unit as rotary controllers. So that gets me 7 stomp button controls, 2 expression peds, and 7 knobs to jack things up with.

Losman, is this only possible on the newer pods, or it will work with my old one plus the FBV 4 footcontroller?

happy new year everyone. If I solve that and see faderfox support this year, I'll get as happy as pig in shit.

Coelho[/b]

mbenigni · Post by **mbenigni** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 6:24 pm

It's called the Digitech Control 8. Very weird that it came off the 8th Street site, though - is it possible I bought the last one? If so, I expect you'll have a tough time finding one.

It's not perfect anyway. I've got to use Bomes Translator to translate cc on/off messages into keystrokes (REALLY wish Live would interpret Program Change messages...) and there are some timing anomolies (the event seems to occur when I release the switch, or if I hold it down, about half a second late, which makes some things difficult. I'm using it to change guitar presets, so it can be a bummer.)

Someone posted about a gaming device which is basically a couple of keyboard switches on the floor with a USB connection - commonly used as Ctl, Alt, Shift keys for instance, but programmable. I ordered one and will see if I can't make creative use of that. It was also cheap, maybe $69. If it works out, I'll be sure to post. Quirky, but hey, no power supply to worry about:

http://gamingmouse.com/weapon.php?pid=30

I think your old POD and FB4 should work, BTW.

Really hoping someone announces a product to fill this hole at NAMM this year.

MIDI Foot Control Help

Roland PK-5 MIDI foot controller

Re: Roland PK-5 MIDI foot controller