Headache Rating: is there a winner amongst DAW’s?

GaryTracks · Post by **GaryTracks** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 8:24 pm

This issue seems to be up, and Live Pro doesn’t seem to be in the works, so;

Is there a hands-down winner for GETTING IT DONE WITH THE LEAST PROBLEMOS? Finishing complex productions, with the least bugs, hair-pulling, and wasted time.

Say, mixing 10 MIDI tracks and 20 audio. And perhaps Rewiring Live (probably too much to ask for). Not so much for top pro level mastering, as much as composing electronica and audio instruments, and sending off to a professional mastering engineer.

Will these programs always be the Wild, Wild West, or are those of you successfully producing, using 1 of these more than another?
Logic? Cubase? DP? PT?

Michael-SW · Post by **Michael-SW** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:50 pm

Well, for straight linear composing you can't really go wrong with either Cubase, Logic or ProTools.

Personally, I would stand clear of ProTools as it is a bit too much audio-centric for my taste but that might just be because I don't know it well enough.

Or rather, personally I stand clear of all of them and use Live. It has it quirks and weaknesses when it comes to old fashioned linear sequencing. But I feel Live's strengths and creative work flow far outweights it's weaknesses.

Note: All of them are quite complex tools that probably will take longer for you to get your head around than Live. And your G4 won't be able to run more than a couple of instances of their built in plugs.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:05 pm

Michael-SW wrote: And your G4 won't be able to run more than a couple of instances of their built in plugs.

Because of that I would say Logic. I love Live, but the Arrange page in Logic is miles above anything Live offers for composing a full song, rather than jamming.

Logic give you up to 40% more CPU than Live does. I haven't messed with express much, and would recommend looking at Pro for many reasons.

DP is also a contender, about 20% more CPU. I haven't had time to get acquainted with it again, and in some ways right away, I'm liking Logic's arrange page again better than DP's versions, but I'm not done testing.....

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:17 am

So why do you bother using Live at all if Logic is so superior....

I use Cubase for my more traditional studio work (ie recording rock bands) with lots of audio or MIDI needs but Live is a very useable tool in session or arrange mode, it's more than just a toy for jamming or DJs.

I agree though that Cubase is less CPU intensive than Live but it is also, like Logic, DP, PT a linear system that albeit with great plugins etc. is just about as much fun to use as watching paint drip dry.

Although it's true that I often end up rewiring Live as I prefer Cubase's mixer and have some nice VST plugs that I am used to using in Cubase's environment. This is not to say that you can't do good things with Live, I have made perfectly acceptable mixdowns using Live's rendering.

The more I use Live, the more I feel like breaking away from Cubase for anything other than projects using a lot of live audio or/ much MIDI editing or scoring.

SubFunk · Post by **SubFunk** » Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:24 pm

leedsquietman asked:

So why do you bother using Live at all if Logic is so superior....

cause they are a different pair of shoes [live and logic] logic is not in every aspect superior, it depends on what you need and how do like to work.

live is superior for jamming, writing, dj-ing, live performance, that doesn't mean that you can't acomplish all other needs like production and recording as well with live, but in that department are many other apps like logic, etc. stronger [next to several other differences i don't want all to mention in detail, at this point]

and one thing is for shure as good as live is even live6 with dual prozessor support, logic gives you way, way more milage out of whatever mac you are running.

both feed different needs, even both can handle as well many many tasks the more or less same way.

i also use both logic and live depending on what i do.
i do in the moment a full production for a funkband [funkdamental], be shure i don't do this kind of work in live, for example.

but for loads other stuff [as mentioned above] i prefer live, by far.

GaryTracks · Post by **GaryTracks** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:48 pm

it looks like Logic or Cubase. i'm leaning toward Logic. i'll have to try them.

any other strong opinions?

mauve · Post by **mauve** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:37 pm

A friend of mine recorded several bands with live and was happy. The only thing he didn't like about the Live 5 is that you couldn't select regions on several tracks for editing....Live 6 has that option now.
I am buying Live this week after having tried DP, Logic and PT.
Of all 3 ,
PT was the most comfortable but hard on CPU and choosy about plugins. i had to return the mBox because I could not run more than 9 tracks.
I've been testing Live demo for the past 2 weeks and find it inspirational and easy to use.
I don't need UI with 1000's of little features like in DP. Most of the time I won't even need them.
Live seems good for audio editing. Simple. I don't miss pro tools, well , maybe
cross-fades and more keyshortcuts...

steved · Post by **steved** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:42 pm

I started using Logic for a few years - then pretty much abandoned it for Live . Live is great for all the aforementioned reasons - but I always got frustrated using the arrange view - and I've tried enough times - but it always felt inferior to Logic by a long way.

At the moment - I can't face booting Logic up again - and I'm loving the simplicity of Garageband for arranging chunks of a song / beats / whatever that were created using Live - just dragging clips into garageband and quickly trying out different arrangements. I also find the apple loops library very useful for building up a library of clips which were originally created in Live.

I'm hoping that they will take the guts of Garageband and make it into the new completely reworked Logic version whatever - and then let me upgrade to it for a measly sum - well a guy can dream .....

GaryTracks · Post by **GaryTracks** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:57 pm

steved
Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:42 am Post subject: Garageband
I started using Logic for a few years - then pretty much abandoned it for Live . Live is great for all the aforementioned reasons - but I always got frustrated using the arrange view - and I've tried enough times - but it always felt inferior to Logic by a long way.

At the moment - I can't face booting Logic up again

steved; can you elaborate on your hesitance with Logic?

mauve · Post by **mauve** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:12 pm

steved wrote:I always got frustrated using the arrange view - and I've tried enough times - but it always felt inferior to Logic by a long way

What do you miss about it?
Also I agree about the garageband. It was my first DAW and I think it is partly responsible for me choosing Live. If it has 24 bit support I'd still be tracking guitars in it...

steved · Post by **steved** » Thu Jan 11, 2007 9:57 pm

Unlike some Logic guru's - I never got to grips with the complexity of the 'environment' . Don't get me wrong - it's an amazingly powerful professional programme , and aspects of it are very 'logical' - others , unfortunately aren't. As far as I am aware - the core of the programme has been added to for many years and a lot of Logic users are hoping for a total re-write a.s.a.p. to create a modern, slick application.

Visually - the arrange view in Live just doesn't work for me - I just find that I can't see what's going on clearly enough - wheras Logic is quite beautiful in a lot of ways - and i get inspired to dive in there and mess around with clips - mute them , stick them in folders, and just play with different arrangements. I just get muddled in Live and head back to the session view.

Another thing, I never got on with the look of the plug ins in Logic - far too sci fi. Live in this respect is far more logical and ergonomic.

I have to confess - I haven't upgraded to the latest incarnation of Logic ( 7.2 ? ) - the one that sorted out a lot of the persistent bugs and introduced some useful new features .... so I know that it has improved since I last used it.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:59 pm

steved wrote:Visually - the arrange view in Live just doesn't work for me - I just find that I can't see what's going on clearly enough - wheras Logic is quite beautiful in a lot of ways - and i get inspired to dive in there and mess around with clips - mute them , stick them in folders, and just play with different arrangements. I just get muddled in Live and head back to the session view.

That pretty much sums it up for me though. After the initial song is patched out in the Session view in Live, it's on to the Arrangement, which scrolls track sizes clunkily, has no real zoom features compared to Logic, doesn't allow you to open / close all automation envelopes on all tracks (it's just one at a time), has no folders, Doesn't edit the loops in the Arrangement really only at the clip, I could go on, like about how I can't fit 16 tracks on my 22" monitor without them all being closed almost completely.......The point is though, Live suffers in the Arrangement area.
Love Live, but Logic smears it in the Arrange page. Grab any three button mouse, assign the magnifying glass to the right click and you can navigate in and out at the very least twice as fast as in Live, and I'm being generous here. You can't assign a button in Live to the vertical view, only the horizontal.......

I should state that I also love Live, and at this point couldn't see not using it!

SubFunk · Post by **SubFunk** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:34 pm

GaryTracks wrote:it looks like Logic or Cubase. i'm leaning toward Logic. i'll have to try them.

any other strong opinions?

that is more a question of: do you use a pc or a mac?

cubase and logic are only rather slightly different, the point is that logic is since 5.5 mac only and the performance of cubase on a mac sucks big time [it's a complete joke, actually] so if you want to decide between the two, the platform you are on, pretty much gives the answer.
i know loads of people running cubase on macs, but it really performs more then poorly, you will notice that propperly ones you run logic and cubase in an A<>B on a mac, speaking milage and stability on your system.

p.s. the milage of logic on intel macs is absolut insane!!!

i use and love LIVE 6 & LOGIC 7.2 on a mac, to me the perfect match.

ChiDJ · Post by **ChiDJ** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:48 pm

Gary,

I think it really comes down to which DAW you're most comfortable with. I've been a DP user for 10+ years and I re-wire LIVE into it constantly without a hitch. DP's latest version 5.11 is the most stable yet and I'm perfectly at home with it. We also have a great user community that is always available for help. http://www.unicornation.com

But, again, it's whatever you find fits you best.

Tod

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:06 pm

Pro Tools HD. Tons of horsepower. World class mixing and recording platform. Midi is better than people thing and it's way tight.

Headache Rating: is there a winner amongst DAW’s?

Headache Rating: is there a winner amongst DAW’s?

Garageband

Re: Garageband