Actually very well said Kabuki.kabuki wrote:The reference to the lightbulb was to point out that back then, folks probably went ape-shit, while others said "so what?"mbenigni wrote:I'm not bashing Jobs, myself, I think his continuing successes speak for themselves. But I don't think this "unveiling" compares with an innovation like the lightbulb. It really is apples (ha!) and oranges: the PDA/cell-phone here is evolutionary, and made feasible in large part by a consumer base that has somehow been programmed into believing that it makes sense to carry $600 worth of computing power in your pocket, when a $50 cell phone would suffice (and, by any objective measure, is a luxury item in the first place.)Imagine if you were there, one of the very few, when Edison unveiled the Lightbulb. Monumental event to be sure.
So I don't condemn Jobs, but I agree that the whole thing is an indication that we have screwed our priorities up beyond all comprehension.
To extrapolate your priorities argument, (which I agree with), we don't really "need" PDAs, iPods, cell phones, Ableton Live, laptops, cars, electricity, processed foods, sanitization to survive. Do we? I think, though, it is all relative. We are spoiled, as a society. While we have more extravigant lifestyles and the items that make them so, we are also more consumed with work and influence. We work hard to have nice things to make our free time more free... its a vicious cycle comsumerism. Alas, we are here now. Let's live here now.
Apple Phone: They had me at "Scrolling"...
Regarding Steve Jobs vs. Bill Gates and the Macworld thing in general; yes it is pretty strange to see all these people going wild over a cellphone, but what many of you (obviously PC users) are missing is that these people are passionate about what they are seeing because they know the passion of what was behind making it.
THAT is the difference behind Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. Gates is a shrewed business man period. He's good at making business deals but there's no passion behind his products; no innovation. But Jobs want's to make cool products that HE would use. Something that HE's passionate about and so he makes it the way HE wants to make it with all of his passion, and it usually shows... and a few times, it does revolutionize the industry (i.e. first mass consumer mouse and GUI, the iPod, etc.)
Now think about it, if you wanted to bring out a product of your own, and let's just say, your music for example, it's YOUR music. You are going to want to be in control of it because you are passionate about it. And when you release it and talk about it, of course you are going to say you are proud of it and that it's "really cool" (you shouldn't be called an asshole for that) and if people go wild for that, it's because they see the fruits of your labor and realize the passion behind it. Now is your music curing AIDS or solving the worlds problems? No. But it's touching someone and making their life better and that's what should matter imho...
THAT is the difference behind Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. Gates is a shrewed business man period. He's good at making business deals but there's no passion behind his products; no innovation. But Jobs want's to make cool products that HE would use. Something that HE's passionate about and so he makes it the way HE wants to make it with all of his passion, and it usually shows... and a few times, it does revolutionize the industry (i.e. first mass consumer mouse and GUI, the iPod, etc.)
Now think about it, if you wanted to bring out a product of your own, and let's just say, your music for example, it's YOUR music. You are going to want to be in control of it because you are passionate about it. And when you release it and talk about it, of course you are going to say you are proud of it and that it's "really cool" (you shouldn't be called an asshole for that) and if people go wild for that, it's because they see the fruits of your labor and realize the passion behind it. Now is your music curing AIDS or solving the worlds problems? No. But it's touching someone and making their life better and that's what should matter imho...
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djsentinel
- Posts: 181
- Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:11 pm
It doesn't make sense, why didn't apple just make it a bit wider and put a fcking 80GB drive in it to make it a real iPod/Phone/Awesome Kickass Thingamabob.kabuki wrote:People who need more than 8 gigs of memory space.simpleton wrote:This is a very innovative device but Jobs has overlooked one huge marketing detail... this is gonna be an iPod killer! Who's gonna pay $400 for an iPod Video now?
I am kind of surprised that they didn't drop a wide screen, multitouch iPod-only capable unit. Folks have been screaming for that one for a long time. Kind of makes the Zune (gag) look a bit nicer . I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.
And to all the haters, I am canceling my Sprint service, throwing my A900 away, and buying this ASAP. Cingular isn't bad at all.
Also, people say it will cost less with a plan? WTF? The product says $500 4GB w/2 Year Plan. That means you have to buy it with a plan, and there isn't some discount.
Again, haters, fck off
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noisetonepause
- Posts: 4938
- Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2002 3:38 pm
- Location: Sticks and stones
Where did you hear such rubbish?! There is no such thing as an IQ of 220 or above.pgwalsh wrote:He has an IQ over 220, which is genius level
Suit #1: I mean, have you got any insight as to why a bright boy like this would jeopardize the lives of millions?
Suit #2: No, sir, he says he does this sort of thing for fun.
Suit #2: No, sir, he says he does this sort of thing for fun.
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knotkranky
- Posts: 4336
- Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:08 pm
- Location: la
All of us want it, and most of us will get it, and switch carriers cuz it's amazing. Nothing comes close and nothing will for a while and apple will stay in front of that curve anyway. One device for it all? please. Less devices, more conveniences and osx.
If your a hater, then you're in perfect position to not get one or give a shit. If your a hater on this thread hating, you want it baaaaaad.
If your a hater, then you're in perfect position to not get one or give a shit. If your a hater on this thread hating, you want it baaaaaad.
...and he's got a killer wardroberobtronik wrote:...The guy is an american original - a true business and marketing (and even managerial) genius who has a knack for being a visionary...
9.0.4 Suite-Samsung Chronos 7 laptop(17")-12GB RAM-Samsung 840 series SSD(250GB)-iPad2-Maschine-TouchAble-SaffirePro24-Saffire6USB-Komplete Audio 6-Axiom25-PCR300-Nocturn-LaunchPad-QuNeo-QuNexus
miTunes
miTunes
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shaneblyth
- Posts: 437
- Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 10:02 am
I am really sorry for you and all the others who let themselves be indocrinated that Jobs is any different then Gates. That is what irritated me initially. Gates you can easily see through, Jobs tries to pretend to be someone else.genshi wrote:Regarding Steve Jobs vs. Bill Gates and the Macworld thing in general; yes it is pretty strange to see all these people going wild over a cellphone, but what many of you (obviously PC users) are missing is that these people are passionate about what they are seeing because they know the passion of what was behind making it.
THAT is the difference behind Steve Jobs and Bill Gates. Gates is a shrewed business man period. He's good at making business deals but there's no passion behind his products; no innovation. But Jobs want's to make cool products that HE would use. Something that HE's passionate about and so he makes it the way HE wants to make it with all of his passion, and it usually shows... and a few times, it does revolutionize the industry (i.e. first mass consumer mouse and GUI, the iPod, etc.)
Now think about it, if you wanted to bring out a product of your own, and let's just say, your music for example, it's YOUR music. You are going to want to be in control of it because you are passionate about it. And when you release it and talk about it, of course you are going to say you are proud of it and that it's "really cool" (you shouldn't be called an asshole for that) and if people go wild for that, it's because they see the fruits of your labor and realize the passion behind it. Now is your music curing AIDS or solving the worlds problems? No. But it's touching someone and making their life better and that's what should matter imho...
My music may not cure AIDS but do not insult me or any dedicated artist by comparing to such ruthless manipulators, greedy megalomaniacs whos´s only obsession is money and power, they may have all money and power in the universe yet never even get a trace of the experience of creating art. Apple or PC are just bunch of wires, not any better then a toaster or toothbrush ( though less usefull)
We may not owe monstours houses in 20 different places on the globe, collections of fancy cars some of us decided and decide every day not to sell our souls. We sacrifice our lifes for art corporate bastards like Jobs dont sacrifice a shit they are just cashing on naive people like you.
Just see the video of our NZ friend- honesty and dedication, beyond just greeed for power or money and not that corporate bullshit circus.
You may believe your good shepard Jobs is smarter then Christ and Einstein, more stylish then Armani, and iphone matches Monalisa and inventing lightbulb, i buy MBP or iPhone just like milk, shoes or a bike, to use and not worship, I pay for it and nobody does me any favour, or enriches my life, just ad some comfort anyone could easily live without.
P.S. Scientologists or Jehova witnesses could be envious, the members of the holy order of worship of Apple are way more fanatical.
I am glad I dont live in USA otherwise I could expect a riot in front of my house, like those antiabortionist, my Mac would be taken away from me and i would be never allowed to ourchase and use iPhone.
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Machinesworking
- Posts: 11551
- Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:30 pm
- Location: Seattle
Personally I'm not a fan of Jobs in general, but here's a very personal take on it......rikhyray wrote:I am really sorry for you and all the others who let themselves be indocrinated that Jobs is any different then Gates. That is what irritated me initially. Gates you can easily see through, Jobs tries to pretend to be someone else.
Bill Gates was born into money, his dad is one of the top lawyers in Seattle, and has been since Bill was a kid. His mom served on a committee of some sort with IBM people, hence his super smart deal with IBM. He dropped out of Harvard because his business was doing well enough that it was a waste of time. Gates went to really good schools, and was already going to be doing well the moment he was born.
Steve Jobs was given up for adoption by his parents, his adopted parents sent him to Reed, but he felt it was breaking their bank so he dropped out. Basically he struggled to get where he is.
I'm not saying that rich people are not worthy etc. just saying that Jobs is a self made man, Gates is a product of his environment. So of the two, Jobs is less annoying to me.
Interesting, didnt know that, so Gates is P.Diddy of IT and Jobs Dr.Dre ?
Seriously, I knew a bit about him and others of the generation, really fascinating if not admirable. I do believe there was all that passion but it was then. Recognition and sucess are a bit dangerous, there always comes a moment when you have to choose, your integrity, your inner honesty or signing that devils contract.
It is interesting that brands, fashion etc, replaced the religions, that includes normal church, tample, mosque goer, and the fundamentalists. I experienced being banned and "made invisible" by some former "friends" when I bought and used pc notebook, now I would be probably seen by those as whore of Babylon, or maybe "he was blind now can see again" but I am not much bothered by such sorry individuals.
Here exactly same, some use this or that, whatever works or they fancy, others not only believe mine is the only right one but try to impose that on the whole universe.
Seriously, I knew a bit about him and others of the generation, really fascinating if not admirable. I do believe there was all that passion but it was then. Recognition and sucess are a bit dangerous, there always comes a moment when you have to choose, your integrity, your inner honesty or signing that devils contract.
It is interesting that brands, fashion etc, replaced the religions, that includes normal church, tample, mosque goer, and the fundamentalists. I experienced being banned and "made invisible" by some former "friends" when I bought and used pc notebook, now I would be probably seen by those as whore of Babylon, or maybe "he was blind now can see again" but I am not much bothered by such sorry individuals.
Here exactly same, some use this or that, whatever works or they fancy, others not only believe mine is the only right one but try to impose that on the whole universe.
As fucked up as many religions seem to be (i.e. they kill those who disagree with them), I think I'd rather be an Appletologist.
When Mac and PC users start killing each other, then I'll reconsider.
Maybe Buddhism. Then again, they probably wouldn't let me have an iPhone.
When Mac and PC users start killing each other, then I'll reconsider.
Maybe Buddhism. Then again, they probably wouldn't let me have an iPhone.
Last edited by hambone1 on Thu Jan 11, 2007 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
The problem with you and some other people is, that you ALWAYS equate success (especially financial success) as a sign of evil. Usually this is due to your own bitter failure. But what I was trying to point out is, like Machinesworking said, Gates kind of just had it all handed to him were as Jobs (and his partner Wozniak) really did it with passion, SACRIFICE and hardwork. The first Apple computer was made of wood for christs sake and they sold it as a kit at the Homebrew Computer Club (and yes, I am over 40 and have been using computers a VERY long time; since before Apple.)rikhyray wrote:Interesting, didnt know that, so Gates is P.Diddy of IT and Jobs Dr.Dre ?
Seriously, I knew a bit about him and others of the generation, really fascinating if not admirable. I do believe there was all that passion but it was then. Recognition and sucess are a bit dangerous, there always comes a moment when you have to choose, your integrity, your inner honesty or signing that devils contract.
I'm no fanboy of Jobs or an extreme hater of Gates, I usually try to stay objective, but the problem with many on this forum is the same problem with America in general, everyone is either extreme Right or extreme Left! No centered voice of reason that can stand back and objectively look at a situation for what it is... and from what I've seen (since Jobs has come back to Apple) is a guy that is passionate about making sexy, innovative products that make people go "Wow!" and that work! And yes, he does this with extreme ego and some arrogance, and he does it with the protection of a mother protecting her first born, but that IS a sign of a true artist as opposed to the typical Gates "here's another half-assed version of Windows that will cause you endless driver updates and blue screens of death."
No rikhyray, it is you that I feel sorry for that you are so naive to think the world is so black and white with good and evil. Incidentally, I was just listening to your music and it is quite good. I'm really enjoying it. I just hope you never become too big and sell millions, cause then all the little haters will come out and say "Ahh see, he was cool once when he was underground, but now he's sold out to the man!" They always say that when you get success, even if you are still doing the same passionate music (or iPhone) from your heart...