TARGET>The Beatles> I've had it!

ejectorset · Post by **ejectorset** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:34 pm

simpleton wrote:At least the punks still have some credibility. I can't see them selling cars.

i didnt read all of the posts and don't usually reply to things like this, but i just wanted to say i have heard the Ramones in some pretty suspect tv commercials.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:42 pm

You lost me at the sex pistols, using them as any sort of moral compass is a joke, they're truly assholes, that's punk.

Seems that not selling out is a contract from listener to artist, expectations we have of our heroes. We'd rather not associate Microsoft with our favorite teenage songs, some people have no respect for the sacred.

When U2 did the Joshua Tree movie I thought that was selling out, then the Zoo Tours and shit, that pissed me off, they said one thing and did another but they were a different band back then.

Cheers to ANYONE here who manages to sell out, I say go for it, make that money, retire, get the fuck out of the rat race, move to Tahiti where the women don't wear no clothes.

monkeyboy · Post by **monkeyboy** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:43 pm

My favourite ever TV commercial song was for Thomson holidays (or somthing like that) in the UK a few years ago that used 'There She Goes' by The Las.

I mean, how hilarious is that?! Obviously some ad exec goes "We need a nice inoffensive jangly tune to go with images of kids whizzing down water slides". Intern picks up a song without working out what the lyrics are saying and they end up with a song about heroin, and not a very subtle one at that!

Darwinist · Post by **Darwinist** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:04 pm

Machinesworking wrote:
Dead Kennedys had ethics and values.

Correction: Jello Biafra has ethics and values. The rest of the DK line-up took him to court to wrest control of the DK catalouge from Alternative Tentacles on the grounds he had failed to seize the opportunities for making money for them, and one of their points was that DK wasn´t getting any MTV airplay(remember this is the band that together wrote the song "MTV get off the air".

Unfortunately Jello and AT lost the case and the other DK´ers released remastered versions of the DK back catalouge on some other label plus the "Mutiny on the bay" live album, and began touring as the Dead Kennedys with some young vocalist. I have never taken as much joy in illegally downloading any music as I did when I dl-ed "Mutiny on the bay".

Bunch of fuckin wankers.

As for RATM, Zach is very much keeping it real, although he hasn´t been making a whole lot of music recently, while Audioslave is "meh" at best.

jb61264 · Post by **jb61264** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:14 pm

Tone Deft wrote:You lost me at the sex pistols, using them as any sort of moral compass is a joke, they're truly assholes, that's punk.

Yeah I have a hard time throwing the Sex Pistols into any discussion involving moral compass too

loved Never Mind the Bullocks when it came out and still like it today (not something I listen to very often though I like to take trips down memory lane every now and then).

Tone Deft wrote:When U2 did the Joshua Tree movie I thought that was selling out, then the Zoo Tours and shit, that pissed me off, they said one thing and did another but they were a different band back then.

To me U2 is a difficult band to asses when it comes to "selling out"...they've gone through phases...early on (first three albums...Boy, October, War) they seemed very much anti-establishment...then as you mention TD, the Zoo and Pop shit pissed me off and I didn't listen to them for a while. It was like they were trying to change their style to "fit in" with what was going on...that was a sell out.

I think they've gotten back to their own sound now...I love U2 and I think what Bono does as far as involvement in civil rights and AIDs is amazing, but I think they sold out with Zooropa and Pop

Tone Deft wrote:Cheers to ANYONE here who manages to sell out, I say go for it, make that money, retire, get the fuck out of the rat race, move to Tahiti where the women don't wear no clothes.

Amen 2 that brother!

kennerb · Post by **kennerb** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:55 pm

It's the culture not the artist.

It is we who actually have an emotional attachment and or memories of a song that makes it sell cars or whatever. It's not the artist that wrote it.

The Ad people know that if they can get some grey haired, mock pony tail, businessman to think about the days when they had no responsibility and tie it in with whatever the hell they are selling then they are going to boost sales.

It goes for everything.

And whoever said that punk is above doing that or that the dead kennedies had ethics and morals. please. they are all on the same hill as anyone else. Why don't you ask some of the artists that were on alternative tentacles how they feel about Jello.

rasputin · Post by **rasputin** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:35 pm

kennerb wrote:...The Ad people know that if they can get some grey haired, mock pony tail, businessman to think about the days when they had no responsibility and tie it in with whatever the hell they are selling then they are going to boost sales....

I am trying to imagine the kind of individual that looks at a Cadillac ad playing snippets of Led Zeppelin and thinking "that's the car for me!"

Makes me shudder.

Thinktanx · Post by **Thinktanx** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:55 pm

info_warfare wrote:
You guys are missing the true point of what a sell out is. If, for example, Iggy Pop did this cool song years ago and he did it from the heart and it meant something to him and gained him a cult following, that's great. If years later an Ad Agency uses that song in a commercial, most of the time the original artist doesn't even have a clue about it until the extra royalty check comes in (and even then, he doesn't know where that royalty came from for the most part.) So that's not selling out at all.

Selling out is when the artist starts creating music for the soul purpose of making money, comprimising his original ideas and values just to satisfy what is demanded of him. For example if a cool underground artist signs a major deal with the condition that they now must use the lables producers and write the type of songs the label wants. THAT is a sell out. But NOT when an artists true art happens to all of a sudden get fame or get used in a commercial. I mean, look at that new cellphone commercial (forgot which brand) with the Clash's Rock The Casbah. How long ago was that song written? 30 years ago? And you think they are selling out because some 20 something ad agency guy said "Hey I found this cool song and think it would be great for the new T-Mobile commercial!" No.

Amen...

I'm sorry, but I find attacks on artists for signing with a major label to be very immature and art school-ish (anyone who went to art school knows the guy I'm talking about).

Who said it was all about making cash? For some, yes. For others, it is about reaching the widest audience possible. There is no shame in that. If you make art for yourself, and yourself only, to enjoy, then so be it. There are others who create art to, hopefully, contribute to culture, and that requires an audience of some kind. And without those artists who do contribute to culture, the world would be an ugly, ugly place.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:58 pm

rasputin wrote:
kennerb wrote:...The Ad people know that if they can get some grey haired, mock pony tail, businessman to think about the days when they had no responsibility and tie it in with whatever the hell they are selling then they are going to boost sales....
I am trying to imagine the kind of individual that looks at a Cadillac ad playing snippets of Led Zeppelin and thinking "that's the car for me!"

Makes me shudder.

Serious journalism requires a serious automobile.

Hunter S Thompson, or old men in bad suits and golf clubs, take yer pick.

Thinktanx · Post by **Thinktanx** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:02 pm

Tone Deft wrote: Serious journalism requires a serious automobile.

Hunter S Thompson, or old men in bad suits and golf clubs, take yer pick.

The Master... HST is an artist who played the line between artistic integrity and cash flow to perfection.

cosmosuave · Post by **cosmosuave** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:52 pm

Speaking of punks... I just saw an ad on TV last night for the Henry Rollins show... Has anyone seen this?

Pitch Black · Post by **Pitch Black** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:48 am

FWIW, Midnight Oil (a legendary politically-charged band from Australia, sadly no more) were offered five million US, thats a million each, to use "The Power and the Passion" for a car commercial (some pickup truck).

To their eternal credit, they turned it down.

forge · Post by **forge** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:35 am

Pitch Black wrote:FWIW, Midnight Oil (a legendary politically-charged band from Australia, sadly no more) were offered five million US, thats a million each, to use "The Power and the Passion" for a car commercial (some pickup truck).

To their eternal credit, they turned it down.

hmmmm...see I'm not sure if I really think that's clever - think of how much they could have done with that cash, not least for some of the remote Aboriginal communities they have always championed!

just for the sake of having their music on an ad they'd probably never see anyway!

Certainly none of the crowds in places like the Parramatta leagues club or Bathurst RSL who are the majority of the Oils tour ticket buyers would have given a rats arse (I did a few of their club gigs in my sydney roadie days back in the day and the crowds are no different to Jimmy Barnes etc, despite the politics) - I doubt it would have harmed them any to just do it, and they could have given it all away, or even a bit of it and been doing much more for humanity

Bono from U2 was on Andrew Denton's "enough rope" not long ago and he was talking about all the stuff he's doing for global poverty and aids etc and I tell ya him and geldof between them are really doing alot for the world

He was talking about the much slated picture of him with Dubbaya and how everyone (including his band) were appalled by it, yet he managed to persuade Georgie to cough up 15billion for the aids battle in africa - largest amount by any US administration ever - even Clinton - he said 10 years ago - even 5 - if he had said he would get a republican admin to cough up that much for aids in africa people would have laughed at him

I guess W has a bit of change to spare after conquering a few of those oil fields in the mid east

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 7:26 am

Thinktanx wrote:I'm sorry, but I find attacks on artists for signing with a major label to be very immature and art school-ish (anyone who went to art school knows the guy I'm talking about).

A: I never went to art school.

B: I do not come from even the middle class. I actually grew up in log cabins and trailer homes. G.E.D. and IQ over 140 somewhere it's been a while....

C: Money is bullshit, people who think money and big labels will solve their problems, and make them famous are delusional.

D: You of course have to pretend it's an art school concept, that politics, and ethics have nothing to do with it, that only those from the middle an upper class would EVER turn down money. The fact that I am staunchly lower class in upbringing kind of screws up this consistent thread in this debate that people who think like that about their music are all part of the upper crust anyway.

E: basically music sucks now because people are all wishy washy wanna be's, nobody will go against eh grain, everybody jumps on any new sound until it becomes cliche, and wait around for the next idea from the underground to emulate and use in the next Brittiny Spears commercial/song.

F: Punk rock is such an obvious example of this, there were a lot of really good, interesting and different bands coming out of the DIY scene in the 80's, by the 90's the mainstream had latched on and signed a few, and they all sound the same, and it's stale as fuck.

audiostein · Post by **audiostein** » Thu Jan 18, 2007 8:46 am

There's always a grey area with this kind of stuff - if I was living in the gutter writing "f*ck The Man" kind of songs, and then The Man said, "Can we use your song? We'll give you ten million for it" guess which I'd do?

I'd take the money and then start writing "f*ck The Boss of the local country club" kind of songs.

It's pretty easy to say you wouldn't sell out when there isn't a huge pile of money under your nose...

For me, selling out isn't that bad, it's when you continue to act as though you haven't - look at Sting. All that "We've got to look after the environment, we must all cut pollution" stuff and then - BINGO - he's makign adverts for cars! Aren't they bad for the environment, Sting?

TARGET>The Beatles> I've had it!

Re: TARGET>The Beatles> I've had it!