not intolerant M breqs (and the +1), just crass & tactless.
if my brother raped your sister, I wouldnt call around to your house saying I think your sisters choice in atire, nameley mini skirts, are the real reason my brother raped her.
Of course, I have the right to say what I feel. Especially if its true. <--your logic
but...sometimes, you dont abuse that right. <-- decency
I wont try and explain this to a nazi like you, M breqs.
One has to be aware of the turmoil in the middle east, the murdering - the wars - the real day to day suffering, and the tampering by certain western institutions which puts the assholes you refer to in power in the first place...
if you're aware of all of that, if there's a shred of dignified compassion in you whatsoever, you'll keep your critique of islam to yourself until the dust has settled and such discussions can be had without inflaming things any further.
Is "Call to Prayer" sample offensive?
Absolutely correct. I can't speak for the others, but I would never go out of my way to be hurtful or offensive. And you absolutely have the right to say whatever you want, whenever you want, so long as you are not directly promoting violence against anyone. And even this limitation should have a very high threshold.b0unce wrote:not intolerant M breqs (and the +1), just crass & tactless.
if my brother raped your sister, I wouldnt call around to your house saying I think your sisters choice in atire, nameley mini skirts, are the real reason my brother raped her.
Of course, I have the right to say what I feel. Especially if its true. <--your logic
but...sometimes, you dont abuse that right. <-- decency
But that freedom goes both ways, and THAT is what is missing here.
There is no doubt that there is daily suffering in the middle east, and around the world. There is also no doubt that most of us here live in relative wealth. We must always be concious of this disparity.b0unce wrote:I wont try and explain this to a nazi like you, M breqs.
One has to be aware of the turmoil in the middle east, the murdering - the wars - the real day to day suffering, and the tampering by certain western institutions which puts the assholes you refer to in power in the first place...
if you're aware of all of that, if there's a shred of dignified compassion in you whatsoever, you'll keep your critique of islam to yourself until the dust has settled and such discussions can be had without inflaming things any further.
But we must also remember that there is poverty and exploitation all around the world; these problems are not unique to the middle-east. And yet, sub-Sahara Africans are not rioting and blowing themselves up because millions of their brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, sons, and daughters are dying every year because of American (Christian) policy. This argument over the use of generic AIDS drugs and how do we combat AIDS in Africa is completely nonsensical: we combat AIDS in Africa by feverishly promoting the one tool we have that lowers the incidence of the disease (and, by the way, fights poverty as well): condoms. Why don't we do this? Because George Bush's government won't fund anything related to condoms. Why? Because he believes condom use is a sin.
The argument that terrorism is uniquely due to poverty and mistreatment is patently false. These are problems, yes, and we should be ashamed that we have mistreated other human beings in this way. But this does not excuse, nor is it the reason for, terror.
hang on a sec. They ARE slaughtering each other. It is very popular in a sort of narcisstic reflex to assume whatever happens, even bad stuff, it's because of us westerners, colonialism etc.And yet, sub-Sahara Africans are not rioting and blowing themselves up because millions of their brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, sons, and daughters are dying every year because of American (Christian) policy.
If you heard all the myths about aids that abound among the population there (e.g. "have sex with a virgin to cure yourself"), you'd not be surprised of how it keeps spreading, and radical christians maybe don't make that much of an impact.
not uniquely, probably, no. But take a well-fed, wealthy suburb kid with a job and a happy family and try to motivate him to blow himself up for some cause. Now try the same with a hungry kid that lives on the streets cause bulldozers tore down his house and his parents' olive plantation and has to rise 3 hours early just so he can make it through several checkpoints protecting illegal settlers in time. It's probably not quite as difficult. Doesn't matter whether he's christian, muslim or pastafarian.The argument that terrorism is uniquely due to poverty and mistreatment is patently false. These are problems, yes, and we should be ashamed that we have mistreated other human beings in this way. But this does not excuse, nor is it the reason for, terror.
Except, it DOES matter. We seem to think that these problems are unique to the middle-east. They are not. There are people in the United States of America living in the most abject poverty; people who are in that state because of systematic racism developed and maintained over the last 250 years, who DO NOT FLY PLANES INTO BUILDINGS. The Tibetan example above is exactly the same.davec1 wrote:And yet, sub-Sahara Africans are not rioting and blowing themselves up because millions of their brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, sons, and daughters are dying every year because of American (Christian) policy.They aren't blowing US up; they aren't killing those who have caused their plight. Tibetan Buddists have been subjected to some of the worst subjugation at the hands of the Chinese. There are no Tibetan Buddist suicide bombers that I know of. That is not to say that Buddism cannot be used as an excuse for violence, but rather than it is far more difficult for a Buddist to justify violence than it is for those who BELIEVE that violence is a virtue.davec1 wrote:hang on a sec. They ARE slaughtering each other. It is very popular in a sort of narcisstic reflex to assume whatever happens, even bad stuff, it's because of us westerners, colonialism etc.
That is simply untrue. Want another example?Mother Teresa spent her life on the streets of Calcutta, supposedly helping the poor. All the while she opposed the two things that are guaranteed to fight poverty: family planning through empowerment of women. Mother Teresa was a religious radical; a friend of poverty, not of the poor. She called abortion the "greatest threat to world peace". Millions upon millions will die in poverty because the Catholic church does not support family planning in any tenable way. Is her deification complete yet?davec1 wrote:If you heard all the myths about aids that abound among the population there (e.g. "have sex with a virgin to cure yourself"), you'd not be surprised of how it keeps spreading, and radical christians maybe don't make that much of an impact.
The argument that terrorism is uniquely due to poverty and mistreatment is patently false. These are problems, yes, and we should be ashamed that we have mistreated other human beings in this way. But this does not excuse, nor is it the reason for, terror.davec1 wrote:not uniquely, probably, no. But take a well-fed, wealthy suburb kid with a job and a happy family and try to motivate him to blow himself up for some cause. Now try the same with a hungry kid that lives on the streets cause bulldozers tore down his house and his parents' olive plantation and has to rise 3 hours early just so he can make it through several checkpoints protecting illegal settlers in time. It's probably not quite as difficult. Doesn't matter whether he's christian, muslim or pastafarian..
We are simply afraid to state the obvious: the triumverate of dominant religions in the world today are inherently violent. Those who ACTUALLY BELIEVE in these religions base their decisions on what thay are told to do. Read the Bible, and then imagine yourself believing it as the literal truth. There are many who do; but most of them (most, not all) have recognized that a literal reading of the Bible is not compatible with modern democratic society. These are the moderates, who betray reason and faith equally. There are, however, groups of people in the world who have not yet recognized this fact; we cannot have a rational dialogue until this happens.
Patently untrue. It's the opposite amigo. The only way the oppressed muslims of the world are going to improve their lot is by abandoning a pre-midevil system of tribalistic values and start acknowledging that their religion is sick and needs their own 'Reformation'. Leftists caressing the mullahs on the heads saying "oh no, it's not your fault" will NOT improve their situation - it only prolongs thier situation by discouraging critical introspection. It's my dignified compassion that is the motivation for my criticism of ancient, insane and morally crippled societies.b0unce wrote: if there's a shred of dignified compassion in you whatsoever, you'll keep your critique of islam to yourself until the dust has settled and such discussions can be had without inflaming things any further.
Oh please; name calling. That'll really win a debate (please note sarcasm). I could just as easily go on a "You're a nazi" tirade about you. But I won't.b0unce wrote:I wont try and explain this to a nazi like you, M breqs.
Indeed. I call Godwin's Law on this oneM. Bréqs wrote:
Oh please; name calling. That'll really win a debate (please note sarcasm). I could just as easily go on a "You're a nazi" tirade about you. But I won't.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum
Last edited by edge100 on Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
........................................................................................................M. Bréqs wrote:The only way the oppressed muslims of the world are going to improve their lot is by abandoning a pre-midevil system of tribalistic values and start acknowledging that their religion is sick and needs their own 'Reformation'.
ya you could, but who would believe that I'm a nazi ? I'm sure most of the pople who frequent these political threads wont find it too hard to link the name 'Mbreqs' with the word 'Nazi' ... alot more people will be agreeing with me, and not you on this one.M. Bréqs wrote:I could just as easily go a "You're a nazi" tirade about you. But I won't.
people can call me an arrogant asshole if they want, a prick, and maybe they'd be right... but thats all meaningless slurs - thats the name calling you refer to. But I'm no nazi. If I wanted to engage in name calling, Mbreqs, I'd have done so...but I refer to you as a nazi...because you act like one. not because of some name calling shtick.
spreader of butter
Edited to maintain the moral high ground. I won't play your game b0unce.
Last edited by M. Bréqs on Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
hoho...any israelis/holocaust survivors/jews here to comment ?M. Bréqs wrote:Israelis?b0unce wrote: ya you could, but who would believe that I'm a nazi ?
Holocaust survivors?
Jews?
Anybody else who thinks that your position vis a vis the destruction of an entire nation (Israel) is motivated through hate?
This is my last post on this issue b0unce. I take it back - you're not a Nazi, your just a fucking idiot.
you call it 'the destruction of an entire nation' ...but I have not once called for the destruction of an entire nation.
I have, and always will, sympathise with palestinian suffering. I will protest the state of israel for its role in oppressing these people on their own soil. No surprise you label me a nazi/anti-semite for this reason. Any criticism of the state of israel, in any medium, by anyone, is met with the same response.
You really show your true colours by the way you imply I want to 'destroy an entire nation' ...you can spin the paradigm all you want, its people I want to save from persecution - not, as you suggest, an entire nation I want to subject to persecution.
a classic nazi maneouver ? probably...
at least thats one edit you made BEFORE someone directly replied to something you said. Thanks. And thanks for calling me a fucking idiot, you may as well stay off your high horse from here onM. Bréqs wrote: [edit]: Damn, I sunk to your level. I feel dirty...
edit: hoho, did I speak too soon? or did you pull another classic Mbreqs edit maneouver ? 'uh oh, I dont like the reply, better edit my post'
rhetorical...
spreader of butter
What are you saying dude. OJ was innocent.astromass wrote:just use the fucking sample.....
if it sounds good, it's fair game....if OJ's knife sounded cool slicing through nicole and ron's necks, i'd use it.....
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