Any monome users in here?

UlcerPentacidis · Post by **UlcerPentacidis** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:18 pm

ok, i get you.

i thought you were talking about the vsti angle of pluggo being superior to bidule.

you are right tho, bidule isn't free.

so are you aware of anyone setting something like this up?

i'd really like to use monome specific patches, integrated with my current setup.

this seems possible with rewire, but i am leary of how tight the sync is,

and how much it would bog my system down.

i read a few discussions over at the bidule forum of people working out bidule solutions,

but no mention of hosting as a vsti in another DAW (ableton obviously)

finding out this is possible, with max/msp or bidule, would be the ultimate selling point for me.

ejectorset · Post by **ejectorset** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:57 pm

yeah the way bidule works, if the newest build (i am going to check it out tonight if i get a minute) is the one with updated osc messages. the one sondod is already testing for them.

anyways, once that new build is public, if you, or me or sondod or anyone makes a bidule that works with the 40h via osc. that will work in bidule standalone, or in the plugin versions. that is the beauty of bidule, being able to run as a plugin inside of your daw, it is the ultimate expandability.

i am very excited and can't wait to cook up some bidules for my momone.

i still really really want max/msp though. i have done the 30 day trial a couple of times in the last few years and most recently right when i got the monome.

that would be for making standalone apps for the monome.

in the meantime, the stuff i do in bidule will be stuff i want to do inside of live that is currently more complicated than you can do using mapd.

by the way, anyone (who like me until the other night) thinks that mapd + live is limited because you can't get the clip status position kind of information back out to the monome for display (ie. you can't have a row that scrolls across locked to tempo) is dead wrong.

we have our first live set coming up in mid feb and i am so impressed by mapd + live 6 as opposed to mlr rewired into live 6 that i am preparing the set that way. i love mlr, don't get me wrong, but mapd is the shit. my stuff is already sketched out in live. you can get a lot deeper with the mapd + live 6 than most people seem to realize.

UlcerPentacidis · Post by **UlcerPentacidis** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:27 pm

i'm glad to hear monome+mapd is as useful as i'd hoped.

and by the sound of it, hosting monome bidules in live is on the way.

that was the final selling point for me, i think i'll prolly be snagging one of these.

wish me luck!

itook4lefts · Post by **itook4lefts** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 9:23 am

ejectorset wrote:by the way, anyone (who like me until the other night) thinks that mapd + live is limited because you can't get the clip status position kind of information back out to the monome for display (ie. you can't have a row that scrolls across locked to tempo) is dead wrong.

we have our first live set coming up in mid feb and i am so impressed by mapd + live 6 as opposed to mlr rewired into live 6 that i am preparing the set that way. i love mlr, don't get me wrong, but mapd is the shit. my stuff is already sketched out in live. you can get a lot deeper with the mapd + live 6 than most people seem to realize.

go on... i'm still on 10.3.9, so i've never used mapd. i was being cheap and waiting for 10.5 to do the upgrade, but maybe i could just take the plunge now. 10.5 will probably bury my machine alive anyway.

so what kind of stuff have you got out of mapd? there's the obvious stuff like clip/scene trigger buttons, volume sliders etc, but can you share some deeper stuff you've done?

thanks

stephen

ejectorset · Post by **ejectorset** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:34 pm

how much ram do you have?

i rock an ibook g4 1.0 gHz. i recently bumped the ram to 768 from the stock 256, but that was so i could install fcp express or something i needed for a project at work.

im gonna post up a screen shot (in my mapd thread at monome.org) or scan in one of the pages i am brainstorming the map out on. i am using their template sheets for the 40h and planning a lot of it on paper and pencil, then slowly adding it in mapd.

i want to find something that will work generically enough that once i learn my mapd mapping i can use it in similar ways with different songs in live.

anyways, top right 4 buttons on the monome switch pages of mappings. pages 1-4. this gives me visual feedback at all times of which page i am on (whichever button is lit) and to switch pages i simply hit whichever of those top right 4 buttons.
just that part is super exciting because i have 4 pages of 60 buttons (240 total) left to map however i want.

on my main page (page 1, the one i am doing first) the bottom row of buttons are setup as midi buttons. toggle mode on the mapd, and i am assigning them to track mutes. at a glance i can tell if a track (or group of tracks since live 6 can map 1 to many) is muted or not, by simply looking at the button status.

the second row up from the bottom is setup to send CCs with the value of 0 or 127 (if pressed) and are just normal "buttons" in mapd. they are like a momentary button, they only send 127 while i hold them down. right now i am mapping these to track sends in live. if it is a drum track where i might not want to send all of the way, i simply change the max value in live instead of changing it in mapd. this way it is more re-usable.

second row from the top (im still playin with this part) sends midi note ons and is perfect for mapping to impulse.

stuff that i setup as mute groups within live (ie. clips on the same track vertically in live) i can use radio buttons in mapd. i group these closely together in mapd vertically so i have a status that perfectly matches live. on track 1 (monome left column) if the 3rd button is lit clip 1 is playing. if the 4th button down is lit, clip 2 is playing. tactile visual feedback and clip launching.

most clips actions will be done on page 1. the other pages will probably have some of the same buttons, ie. buttom row for track mutes and mute status and a row or two for realtime impulsing.

you can setup sliders in mapd so that a group of buttons act as one slider. more fun than you would think, sure they step. ie. if you have 4 buttons assigned to be a midi CC slider, there is only 4 possible values. if you use 8, 8 values, etc. but this gives you a level on control to actually play with a CC in a re-creatable way that is suprisingly fun.

i shouldnt have to point out that if you are using creative racks in live 6 and dummy clips you can play in realtime from the monome (clip quantize off) that you can get as crazy as your imagination will allow.

that should give you some ideas. my mapd is going to be pretty specific to how i am setting up live 6 for an upcoming liveset but when all 4 pages are mapped out in a way i like, i will definately post the mapping over at the monome site.

once my map is done, and i have taken the time to midi map it in live, i will definately be able to jam on my live 6 songs in realtime with my clips and racks and effects and live + 40h acting as a single instrument. all without ever looking at the screen.

itook4lefts · Post by **itook4lefts** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 3:28 pm

thanks for all that mate. i reckon i might have to upgrade my OS and do this. i just realised i qualify for the educational discount, so why not?

i'd been trying to set up a similar kind of thing in pd, like radio buttons for clip launch and so on, but it's just too time consuming. i quite like using pd, but i don't want to spend all my monome time debugging my crappy abstractions. looks like mapd is the way to go.

btw - i've got the same amount of ram as you. so it should be no problem.

pucklermuskau · Post by **pucklermuskau** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:36 am

how do you have these clip-triggering buttons as radio buttons? I thought that a radio-group could only send different values of the same midi command, not seperate midi commands. Am i wrong about this? I would be very happy to hear this...

[quote="ejectorset"]
stuff that i setup as mute groups within live (ie. clips on the same track vertically in live) i can use radio buttons in mapd. i group these closely together in mapd vertically so i have a status that perfectly matches live. on track 1 (monome left column) if the 3rd button is lit clip 1 is playing. if the 4th button down is lit, clip 2 is playing. tactile visual feedback and clip launching.

itook4lefts · Post by **itook4lefts** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:25 pm

pucklermuskau wrote:how do you have these clip-triggering buttons as radio buttons? I thought that a radio-group could only send different values of the same midi command, not seperate midi commands. Am i wrong about this? I would be very happy to hear this...

i've not used mapd, but the way i have it in pd is the LEDs are a radio group, in say, 1 column, but the buttons themselves are sending different midi notes for clip launch.

pucklermuskau · Post by **pucklermuskau** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:58 pm

jut reccevied an answer on the helpful monome forum. Apparently, mapd lets one set up a radio-group and specify the midi note number as the variable in the address, which then allows each button to send a different midi note while remaining in the radio group. What a well design customizable bit of kit.

itook4lefts · Post by **itook4lefts** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 9:56 pm

pucklermuskau wrote:jut reccevied an answer on the helpful monome forum. Apparently, mapd lets one set up a radio-group and specify the midi note number as the variable in the address, which then allows each button to send a different midi note while remaining in the radio group. What a well design customizable bit of kit.

yeah i just saw that. thanks to ejectorset's post above, i finally got round to ordering the 0s 10.4 update (yeah i know 10.5 will be out in a few months, but well, bollocks to it). so i'll be rocking mapd soon. mmm... filterdelay...

Machinate · Post by **Machinate** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:22 pm

Radio groups are indispensable to me - rocking that they have it in mapd too!

frankie.solar · Post by **frankie.solar** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 2:55 pm

anyone care to offer a step by step guide to getting the buttons on the monome to trigger clips in ableton session view via mapd on a mac. im trying to map the vertical columns on the controller to the vertical columns of clips in ableton.

many thanks

ejectorset · Post by **ejectorset** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 3:26 pm

frankie, i just got a macbook last night and don't have the monome installed yet but once i do later today i will gladly give you a step by step.

if anyone else has everything handy right now, feel free to do it though.

its pretty easy you just select the whole column and delete the widgets that are already there.

then you select the whole column and add widgets and choose radio for the type.

you want each one to send a different midi note on message. doesn't matter which midi notes.

then you just midi map to the clips as normal in live.

i'll do a more detailed one later though if that doesnt help enough.

btw what clip launch mode are you clips set to in live?

"trigger" mode works best for a radio group in mapd.

frankie.solar · Post by **frankie.solar** » Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:36 pm

thanks for your help ejectorset
unfortunately im in uncharted territory here so a more detailed idiots guide would be really helpful.

there is 2 aspect to this that i am really unclear about

1) configuring mapd
so i open mapd, select a column of widgets. . .select radio button
then im lost

2) configuring midi in ableton to pick up monome button pressing

after ive set up mapd, do i leave it running and open ableton?
so i open ableton. . what do i chose under midi sync preferences?
close preferences and then click midi map button, select the clip i want to trigger and press one of the configured monome pads and it should pick it up?
am i close?

sorry, im a complete midi novice . . .all help much appreciated
thanks

pucklermuskau · Post by **pucklermuskau** » Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:56 am

hi frankie. Basically, for each track you have in ableton, youre going to want to set up a vertical column of monome buttons, as a radio widget. Then, in the 'address' area, youre going to enter something like "/midi/note_on a $1 127 1", where a is the subunit that the monome sends from (a,b,c, or d), $1 is the variable that will be controlled by each button in the radio widget, 127 is the velocity of the note, and 1 is the midi channel. Then for each button in the widget, you enter (in the 'value' box) the midi note that will be sent out (replacing the $1). Each time you press a button in the widget, it will sned out a note # whatever your value is, at 127 velocity, on channel 1. Note that the $1 can be placed anywhere in the expression, for example if you wanted to have the same note #60 sent out over different channels, you could write /midi/note_on a 60 127 $1, then have each button value be somewhere between 1-16, and each press will send out a note #60 to whatever channel you specify.
Hope that helps, really just the tip of the iceberg...