Richard Dawkins: The God Delusion.

BoimB son of BoB · Post by **BoimB son of BoB** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 12:18 pm

BoimB son of BoB wrote: 'all powerfull' ey, well well ... an all powerfull entity ... a lot of people will froun (how do you spell that) at you for that. you call yourself an atheist. agnost seems better.
i totally agree with the science comment, though.

sorry nolus, that was quite arrogant of me. ineed some rest

shtreimel · Post by **shtreimel** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:03 pm

Meef Chaloin wrote:
shtreimel wrote:Meef...if you're going to use conspiracy websites to spread ol' anti-semitic tales, you could at least include these
you are a drama queen aren't you! Anti semitic, don't make me laugh. How did I know you would pull that card?

Guess you've been called it before. Of course, you could be a B'nai Brith Live user pulling my leg. Doesn't sound like it though...when folks start finding evidence of Israel/Jew/9-11...it morphs real quick into whatever hatred sounds reasonable to you.

TomTom · Post by **TomTom** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:07 pm

You think trying to prove or disprove the existence of God is futile? Try getting Ableton to add support for time signature changes!

BoimB son of BoB · Post by **BoimB son of BoB** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:35 pm

shtreimel wrote:
Meef Chaloin wrote:
shtreimel wrote:Meef...if you're going to use conspiracy websites to spread ol' anti-semitic tales, you could at least include these
you are a drama queen aren't you! Anti semitic, don't make me laugh. How did I know you would pull that card?
Guess you've been called it before. Of course, you could be a B'nai Brith Live user pulling my leg. Doesn't sound like it though...when folks start finding evidence of Israel/Jew/9-11...it morphs real quick into whatever hatred sounds reasonable to you.

ever heard of the word paranoia?

relaxe, you overreact a bit, the 9-11 bit was probably cited in the knowledge you would react as you react now. so they can laugh at you. no anti-semitic laughing. just... laughing like

yes thet are pulling your leg, but i don't know about the B'nai Brith Live user though, excuse me my ignorance...

Meef Chaloin · Post by **Meef Chaloin** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:50 pm

i wasnt trying to wind anyone up (well perhaps slightly), but connecting a few Israeli spies to 9/11 is not even remotely anti semitic. I wasnt implicating jews in general, if they were jewish then I would call them extremists, in which case they would be as dangerous as an extremist muslim or kkk member.

Its irrelevant anyway, it would be nice to see one political & religious thread not tail off in to a pro/anti israel thread.

pilcrow · Post by **pilcrow** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 2:52 pm

BoimB son of BoB wrote: but i'm no expert at matter (certainly not at the baby saving phenomen..)

Me neither. I hope it never comes up!

That's why I avoid raging rivers.

BoimB son of BoB · Post by **BoimB son of BoB** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 4:03 pm

Meef Chaloin wrote: Its irrelevant anyway, it would be nice to see one political & religious thread not tail off in to a pro/anti israel thread.

i agree

simplesatisfaction · Post by **simplesatisfaction** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:11 pm

Consider that we, as humans, are very limited. To pretend to have even the capacity to understand everything that exists is stupid. Too many times, scientists limit their thinking to the physical world that we can experience and measure with tools we create. But that does not rule out the possibility of a non-physical world that may be all around us at all times. Just because we can’t see it or measure it, doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

mdk · Post by **mdk** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:22 pm

and there is the basis of science.

i dont understand, but im going to find out what i can.

simplesatisfaction · Post by **simplesatisfaction** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:27 pm

Also, so many people disregard the possibility of a higher power because of the theory of evolution and other current scientific thinking (which again is based on our limited abilities as humans and will likely be proven wrong at some point in the future). Scientists are suppose to be open thinkers, but they too often fall victim to human limitations and start to create their own dogma and shortsightedness.

Even if some of the scientific thinking we have come up with to date has a bit a truth (who knows), none if it rules out the possibility of higher power.

Ask yourself … why do the laws of nature we are able to observe and explain (in our very limited way) exist in the first place? Why would there be any reason for them to exist at all – why would there be any reason for life to exist at all? What may be outside the realm of what we are able to comprehend as humans?

We may try to answer these questions with science – and if we come up with a good idea/theory, new questions come up that may take us deeper but still do not get to any real truth of existence.

andydes · Post by **andydes** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:33 pm

simplesatisfaction wrote:Consider that we, as humans, are very limited. To pretend to have even the capacity to understand everything that exists is stupid. Too many times, scientists limit their thinking to the physical world that we can experience and measure with tools we create. But that does not rule out the possibility of a non-physical world that may be all around us at all times. Just because we can’t see it or measure it, doesn’t mean it isn’t there.

And just because we don’t understand it, doesn’t mean we should just start making things up to fill in the gaps. All we have to study the universe are the tools we create and our reasoning. Anything is pure guesswork. You won’t find many scientists who claim we know everything, that’s the whole point of it. But you will find plenty of religious leaders telling you exactly what God wants you to do with you life. To pretend that they have the capacity to understand God (if He exists) is even more stupid.

To me and many others, the existence of a God raises more questions than it answers. So until I see some evidence, I remain highly sceptical.

Good to see you jumping in the deep end with your first post.

simplesatisfaction · Post by **simplesatisfaction** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:37 pm

mdk wrote:and there is the basis of science.

i dont understand, but im going to find out what i can.

But shouldn't scientist leave all possibilities open (including the possibility of a higher power or creator) - rather than ruling things our right away just because it seems to not fit with where our current understanding is?

Isn’t it possible that ancient culture may have had a better connection with the non-physical world because they were not blinded by our modern idea that science can explain everything eventually? Maybe they had more real truth then we do now, but we have closed ourselves off to that possibility because they explained it in such a way that doesn’t fit with our modern ideas of how the world works. Maybe there is truth that we are all missing because we do not open ourselves up to all possibilities?

nathannn · Post by **nathannn** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:40 pm

when will this thread die?
its a non stop bitchfest!!!
no one is accomplishing anything...

mdk · Post by **mdk** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:45 pm

simplesatisfaction wrote:Even if some of the scientific thinking we have come up with to date has a bit a truth (who knows), none if it rules out the possibility of higher power.

no, but it makes it more and more improbable. adding in a 'higher power' actually makes things far more complicated, unless of course that is your end point.

Ask yourself … why do the laws of nature we are able to observe and explain (in our very limited way) exist in the first place? Why would there be any reason for them to exist at all – why would there be any reason for life to exist at all? What may be outside the realm of what we are able to
comprehend as humans?

...but still do not get to any real truth of existence.

im assuming you mean 'truth of existence' like the prior use of 'reason for existence'.

no reason or higher purpose for life is required.

we evolved. we come from years and years of replication and adaptation to the environment.

mdk · Post by **mdk** » Tue Jan 30, 2007 5:51 pm

simplesatisfaction wrote:But shouldn't scientist leave all possibilities open (including the possibility of a higher power or creator) - rather than ruling things our right away just because it seems to not fit with where our current understanding is?

i think you have a misunderstanding of what science is. im sure there are some people who are scienctists who dismiss the 'creator' idea without a second thought, but going back to the thread topic, dawkins obviously doesnt otherwise he wouldnt have written a whole book about it within which he shows that every time you introduce 'god' you either settle for ignorance or disappear into an infinite regress.

as i see it, the point is that the existence of a higher power is incredibly unlikely. combine that with the fact that religious belief is responsible for a lot of misery in the world then it would seem reasonable to take the stance that god doesnt exist and religion is a dangerous mind virus.