Library: Live stores entire sets rather than clips?

[pepezabala]

I am annoyed as well. With live 5 I could open a blank set, warp some songs for later djing, and throw them all as clips into a folder that cI had created for warped songs for djing. Now Live 6 doesn't let me, it always creates subfolders. I clean it up later in the finder, by dragging the clips into the main folder and deleting all the subfolders, but it's a real pain.

[scientist]

that copying a clip's associated audio file along with the clip cannot be done without "file management"...its all meant to be managed via the library/project manager. and even then it still throws the audio file in a "samples" folder, beyond the folder where the clip is copied to. the bright side of all of this is that the solutions are easily added without messing up current functionality.

[Amaury]

that copying a clip's associated audio file along with the clip cannot be done without "file management"...its all meant to be managed via the library/project manager. and even then it still throws the audio file in a "samples" folder, beyond the folder where the clip is copied to. the bright side of all of this is that the solutions are easily added without messing up current functionality.

Hi,

I am the one who had 'confirmed', and I feel there is a need for some clarity here.

Live 5 and Live 6 clip functionality are quite the same. The only difference is that if you drag a clip in Live 6's Browser in a location that is not already a project, Live 6 will create a project folder. The Live 6 Library IS a giant project folder.

I am annoyed as well. With live 5 I could open a blank set, warp some songs for later djing, and throw them all as clips into a folder that cI had created for warped songs for djing. Now Live 6 doesn't let me, it always creates subfolders. I clean it up later in the finder, by dragging the clips into the main folder and deleting all the subfolders, but it's a real pain.

In your case, if you drag the clips outside of the Library, a project folder should be created for the first clip you drag. Then, you can drag the other clips in the same folder and no subfolders will be created. Simply rename the first created folder 'warped song for later DJing' or whatever, and you are done. Now, in order to save the audio material into the same project folder, use the 'manage project' via a right click on the folder in Live Browser, and choose to import the files into the project. All the audio files will then be in the same place, AND the reference to the clips won't be lost, which is the biggest advantage.

In Live 5, you could not move the sample after having saved the clip without the clip loosing the reference to the sample. Quite annoying.

Now, if you drag your clip to the Library, no subfolder will be created as the Library is a giant project. you can create a subfolder by hand to drag all of your clips of the same kind. If you use the 'manage file' right click menu entry on these clips, and choose to import the sample file into the project, the sample files will be copied into the Library/Samples/Waveforms/Imported folder, all in the same place.

As in Live 5, if you drag multiple clips at once to the Browser, Live 6 creates a Live set, that can then be unfold to access individual clips in it. You can manage the set the same way to import its referenced sample files into the project or Library.

Hope that clarifies thing, let me know.

Regards,
Amaury

[scientist]

thanks amaury for all your attention on this...so off the top of your head can you see any usability problems with implementing an "option drag copies audio file along with clip" option? the problem i see is that project management wants to create a "samples" folder for all audio files referenced by clips within a project folder, so when option dragging a clip to a location outside of a project folder this might cause problems, or simply not be possible. maybe it needs to all be handled via contextual menus...but again it might run into the same "project folder" vs. "non-project folder" problem.

although the copy functionality is not different between 5 and 6, in 5 i was at least able to keep clips and samples (and their related asd file) in single folders that were managed entirely outside of live...though it doesn't look as organized, from a functionality standpoint it makes more sense.
oh, and another danger with all of this...in trying to discover a way to keep everything organized i accidentally changed my entire audio music folder into a project folder, which of course screwed up everything. i fixed the problem but this is dangerous ground...seems like live is getting too far into the os'es management structure.

i think the concept of the live library is fine as long as its absolutely transparent, but at this point it obviously is not (just do a search of the forums to see how confusing it is). but even if everyone learns how to use it the way ableton intends, it still has the problem of being painfully slow when starting the management process.

[Paul440]

As in Live 5, if you drag multiple clips at once to the Browser, Live 6 creates a Live set, that can then be unfold to access individual clips in it. You can manage the set the same way to import its referenced sample files into the project or Library.

Hope that clarifies thing, let me know.

Hi Amaury,

Thanks for the above information. From what you say above, Live will create a Live Set whenever you drag multiple clips to the Browser. If thats the case, how can you add more clips to a set that was created this way? This essentailly was what my original post was about. I am not too concerend with the sample reference aspect...

For me, its OK when I add 20 clips at once to the browser and Live creates a set for this (although its not ideal)...But how do I then later add 3 more clips to that set to take the total to 23. The typical situation I find myself in is that:

I am working on Set A. 3 clips I just added sound great, but they dont fit whats going on in Set A. I want to add them to my other Set that Live created for me (the one with 20 items in it) so that it now has 23 items in it.

I can find no way to add to the Set that Live created when i first dragged the 20 clips into the Browser. I know if I literally open that set I can add to it or manipulate it in anyway, but if I am currently in the middle of something on Set A, thats a real pain. Am is missing something.

Let me know if this makes sense.

Thanks,
Paul.

[Amaury]

Hi,

You'll have to do it that way then: save the clips you want to add to the set to a temporary folder, then open the 'set' that was created with the first 20 clips, and add the new clips that you previously saved in the temporary folder. Save the clip, you're done. You can then erase the temporary folder.

For sample references, you just have to manage the Live set and include all samples.

Regards,
Amaury

[Paul440]

Hi,

You'll have to do it that way then: save the clips you want to add to the set to a temporary folder, then open the 'set' that was created with the first 20 clips, and add the new clips that you previously saved in the temporary folder. Save the clip, you're done. You can then erase the temporary folder.

For sample references, you just have to manage the Live set and include all samples.

Regards,
Amaury

Thanks! understood...
a bit cumbersome but it is a workaround...

Maybe Ableton could look at optional behaviour for dragging multiple clips into the Browser for a future release.

Option 1: create a new set to hold the multiple clips (current Live6).
Option 2: just create multiple clip files on the HDD in the folder that the user dragged them to (no set created).

maybe holding down Ctrl or shift while dragging could activate the two options.


just an idea...



Paul.