Question for Fireface 400 users.

nolus · Post by **nolus** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:03 pm

I'm considering splashing out on an RME Fireface 400. So I would be very interested to here from any existing users :-

* What sample rate and bit depth you are using.

* What's the smallest buffer size / latency you can use reliably with Live.

* What's your OS and CPU.

* Anything else you think may be relevant.

Thanks in anticipation.

sparklepuff · Post by **sparklepuff** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:21 pm

I'll second that question. It's the next thing on my list to purchase and I'd love to get some feedback. My biggest question is if there are any guitar players using it. I was using an M-Audio Firewire Solo, and found the latency and sound quality of my guitar through the preamp was unusable. Using the built in audio interface of the RigKontrol I have virtually no latency, the guitar sounds much better, but as an overall audio interface for everything else, it's not so good. My Digi002 sounds great, but again, the latency with Live makes it unusable. So I want a fantastic sounding interface, great preamp, low latency with the guitar, portable. Is this the one? Thanks.

nolus · Post by **nolus** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 11:38 am

Bump - Surely someone around here must use one???

YILA · Post by **YILA** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:59 pm

i have the 800 which runs the same drivers etc...

i've recorded at all bit rates, its got super low latencey; i play my guitar monitoring through live...it never crashes etc etc They update the drivers all the time and support is great.

just buy one.

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:17 pm

where guitar latency is 'unusable' - use direct monitoring - OK, any effects or EQing / compression won't be heard until playback but your signal not having to be processed by the DAW should give you miniscule latency. Although I guess if you're recording thrash metal or something and were using vst effects for distortion as insert effects, it might suck to thrash away on a clear and clean sound when direct monitoring is applied...

That's what I do on my echo indigo io (although I can run it at 256 samples - approx 6ms in and 6 ms out and have it be usuable for guitar recording)

nolus · Post by **nolus** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:04 am

OK, thanks for the replies,

YILA wrote:i have the 800 which runs the same drivers etc...

i've recorded at all bit rates, its got super low latencey; i play my guitar monitoring through live...it never crashes etc etc They update the drivers all the time and support is great.

just buy one.

could you be more specific about what you mean by "super low latency". I normally work at 44.1 KHz 16 bit and my current sound card works reliably with a buffer size of 128 samples unless the processor load is really high, at 256 samples it's solid.

If the RME can deliver solid performance at 44.1/16 with a buffer size of 64 I'm in.

leedsquietman wrote:where guitar latency is 'unusable' - use direct monitoring - OK, any effects or EQing / compression won't be heard until playback but your signal not having to be processed by the DAW should give you miniscule latency. Although I guess if you're recording thrash metal or something and were using vst effects for distortion as insert effects, it might suck to thrash away on a clear and clean sound when direct monitoring is applied...

That's what I do on my echo indigo io (although I can run it at 256 samples - approx 6ms in and 6 ms out and have it be usuable for guitar recording)

unfortunatlly direct monitor is not an option for me because I need to process external instruments in real time using effects that synchronize with the beat. at 128 buffer size my guitar and baseg playing friends complain of a noticable delay. admittedly this probably has more to do with plugin delays but anything I can do to bring down the total delay time should help.

Another issue I have with my existing settup is MIDI latency and timing jitter. hopefully the RME will be better on MIDI as well, but it would be nice to see some numbers before handing over the cash.

ikke · Post by **ikke** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 10:08 am

in my experience rme and m-audio (all pci on win xp) have the best reliable low latency drivers. Echo Audio Gina was neat too! i have no problems whatsoever with my 80 bucks audiophile running at 48khz, 24bit and with only 1.5ms (64samples) during all my sessions! even if my cpu meter in live is way high, i get no hickups or nasty crackles when running with a latency of only 1.5ms. i can drum, scratch and play guitar through vst effects without notcing any latency. Even if i trigger a softsampler with sticks on an E-drum!!

the things that you need to be sure of:

at least 1GB of memory installed
dedicated OS/comp for audio production
a nice expensive intel chipset! ... seriously. this is where all the problems start. If youve bought a cheap pc system thats been configured for you, youll have various problems and you all will point your finger at Bill Gates! but in fact its the fault of your dealer who sold software/hardware that just sucks..
make sure the soundcard you buy is compatible with all your hardware inside your computer
make sure you only have 1 driver installed and only 1 soundcard running. Disable or disconnect anything you dont need. this also applies to those who have Macintosh!
tweaking your os is the last thing you will do. first you need to make sure your os can work with your hardware without little tiny problems which result in hickups and high latency

jesso · Post by **jesso** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:57 am

I use one with a G4 mac.
I moniter directly, but i did the latency/test set up with live, and the latency seemed very low. I couldnt tell you how low, cos ive a head like butter when it comes to figures.
I have no problems with midi either (again no figures sorry)
The software is nice and simple, and there are way more routing options than i will ever need. The preamps are very clean and clear, not much character, but i suppose thats not why you buy one of these. One other thing, the Digital Analogue conversion is fantastic. I can hear things in my mixes i could never hear before.

sparklepuff · Post by **sparklepuff** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 5:40 pm

Thanks, guys, I'm sold. Placing order......now.

nolus · Post by **nolus** » Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:49 pm

sparklepuff wrote:Thanks, guys, I'm sold. Placing order......now.

Yes thanks folks, I'm still on the fence but I can see myselfe taking the plunge in the not too distant future.

I'm getting good results from my Firewire 410 but it occasionally screws up - very rarely but once is too often if it happens during a gig.

ikke, I can't go the PCI route unfortunately because I'm on a laptop. I did think about a pcmcia adaptor but the RME is too expensive for me and although I'm tempted by the EMU I'm worried that it may become obsolete as pcmcia is phased out.

So I'm looking for the best firewire solution. Just that I've had disapointments before with soundcards and would just apreciate some numbers to go on. would be gutted if I bought one and still could not get below 128 buffer size.

sparklepuff, would appreciate it if you could report back when you've tried your's.

sparklepuff · Post by **sparklepuff** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:12 am

Reporting back as requested. I love it. Latency not noticeable on guitar going through live and guitar rig with 512 samples. The mic pre's are great, VERY noticable difference recording acoustic than with my firewire solo. Already sold that thing on eBay. I don't see a better firewire solution at this point, you've basically got a top notch piece of studio gear to throw in your bag and take with you. I recommend you save up and grab one when you can.

bragi0 · Post by **bragi0** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:59 am

The thing that killed it for me was simply that my core2duo MBP wouldn't power it up over firewire. I ended up going to a MOTU Ultralite instead.

peeddrroo · Post by **peeddrroo** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:50 am

funny, i purchased a ff400 cause my laptop was causing me troubles with my m-audio fw410 (audio input disabling on its own because of a ricoh chipset). now everything is fine.
i din't notice a big improvement on audio playbackquality, but the recording sounds MUCH better on the ff400. it actually sounds GOOD.

about the latency: on a busy set, i managed to go down to 96 samples without too much artefacts (only on stuff like zooming, moving the loop zone). 64 and 48 were unplayable, but i guess with a not-too-busy set it would work.
that's with 44.1/16.

peeddrroo · Post by **peeddrroo** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:21 pm

there's one thing that doesn't quite work for me though: i can't use several applications at the same time(eg Live and wavelab or windows media player).
i know i can sort it with some correct routing, but i didn't need to do that with te fw410.
if anyone can help, that's cool.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:49 pm

peeddrroo wrote:there's one thing that doesn't quite work for me though: i can't use several applications at the same time(eg Live and wavelab or windows media player).
i know i can sort it with some correct routing, but i didn't need to do that with te fw410.
if anyone can help, that's cool.

I'm pretty sure this works, I just ordered a fireface 400 so have the manual pdf handy

the fireface manual wrote: Simultaneous playback of different programs using only one stereo output. The ASIO multiclient driver allows to use several programs at the same time, but only on different playback channels. TotalMix provides the means to mix and monitor these on a single stereo output.

from 31. TotalMix: Routing and Monitoring