Ultralite frustration / core audio tweaking

avantronica · Post by **avantronica** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:35 am

This one's for any Ultralite owners OR OSX tweakers

Okay, I have one myself - the quality is not an issue...
The issue is the numbering of channels in OSX core audio...
....major frustrations

analog ins 1-8 show as 1-8
analog outs 1-8 show as 3-10 .. and so on
all the numbering of the input channels are staggered by two to accomodate the main outs which are numbered 1 & 2 (i understand this is handled differently in windows and in MOTU apps)
but for apps like live and logic it is annoying to put it mildly

so - my question for everyone is threefold
1) is there a neat tweak/workaround within core audio to allow renumbering
2) have i missed something
3) any other suitable forum where i might get some progress/ideas (MOTU haven't been helpful in the past)

many thanks

dmacintyre · Post by **dmacintyre** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:21 pm

The MOTU audio app installed with the driver allows you to rename channels (installed in the Applications folder). Have you tried that?

D.

avantronica · Post by **avantronica** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:40 pm

Thanks for reply/suggestion... However...

I have indeed renamed my channels through this route - this is ONLY applicable to the MOTU apps - like CueMix front end e.g.
This is great and shows how simple it could be.
If MOTU did a ub version of AudioDesk it'd be simpler in that too - but they don't
Besides, Logic and Live are my preferred apps

However in Live the channels show up as 1,2,1&2, ...13&14 and so on (not custom names)
This numbering is derived from the way that Core Audio handles the channels
(or the way that the Ultralite offers its channels to Core Audio)
There are no such confusions with the traveller for example

I understand that the main outs for the windows implementation of Ultralite presents the pair as numbers 11&12 or maybe 13&14 - this'd be ideal because then the meters on the front of the ultralite would tie in with your live channel assignments

e.g I use ins and outs 7&8 as a send/return but you have to remember to select 9&10 for the sends in a non-MOTU app

I've tried aggregate devices and all sorts but that doesn't help

Still lookin' for some advice !!!

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:04 pm

This is more of a Live limitation, as it doesn't recognize the output renaming set up in core audio preferences that users can do. It always just shows output numbers, which in the case of the Ultralite, is confusing (ie, the main outs are 11/12 instead of 1/2 in most devices).

Renaming channels and midi ports within Live has been asked for many times, but here's one more vote for it anyway. This is one of those nice conveniece things i miss from SX3...

avantronica · Post by **avantronica** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:20 pm

To be fair to the ableton guys, this is actually a restriction of the way the way core audio handles the multi i/o designation

i'd settle for the problem Tarekith describes where the main outs are 11/12 (presumably a windows user then)

Because Core Audio assigns chans 1/2 to the main outs it results in confusion (for me anyway) where the actual physical 1/2 outs are therefore 3/4 in Live and ANY other non-MOTU app that uses Core Audio Including LOGIC PRO

So if i were able to *hack* the way that the Ultralite offers its outputs to Core Audio to make the main outs be the last pair (13/14) then all the physical ins would tie with the physical outputs and the meters on the h/w would make sense

So the question still stands - Any ideas of a way to renumber the 'core audio' definitions for the Ultralite ?

The suggestion for LIve to rename channels would get round it and make life easier, but that wouldn't work for Logic Pro or other apps !

Cheers

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 2:38 pm

Who cares about Loggic users though?

And no I'm not a Windows user.

avantronica · Post by **avantronica** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 3:26 pm

I'd like to clarify (with Tarekith or other OSX Ultralite users)

Is the following your experience with Live / Core Audio

Ins
1-8 = 1/2 3/4 5/6 7/8
S/PDIF = 9/10
(I also get an option for Mix1 inputs on Channels 11/12 through the Core Audio - these are not Physical Ins, but a sum of Mix1 inputs)

Outs
Main = 1/2
1/2 = 3/4
3/4 = 5/6
5/6 = 7/8
7/8 = 9/10
11/12 = S/PDIF OUT
13/14 = Headphone Mix

If Tarekith and other OSX users are finding Main outs on 11/12 then I have a slightly different(corrupt?) installation - I have the latest Drivers and Firmware from MOTU (recently posted - but prob same before /after)

Anyone prepared to comment / confirm my i/o routing findings
Cheers

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:11 pm

The main outs on my Ultralite are definitely 11/12 in Live.

avantronica · Post by **avantronica** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 4:49 pm

The plot thickens ! - I'll wait for MOTU to get back to me then
Thanks for the confirmation

I know I'm not the only user to experience this issue, but the reason for the different numbering is a puzzler ??

avantronica · Post by **avantronica** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:32 pm

This list pasted below is DIRECT from MOTU

It makes it clear that the routing is as I am experiencing ...

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The I/O scheme for the UltraLite is:

INPUT
1-2 : Analog 1-2 (XLR/TRS)
3-8 : Analog 3-8 (TRS)
9-10 : S/PDIF 1-2
11-12 : Mix1
OUTPUT
1-2 : Main Outs
3-10 : Analog 1-8
11-12 : S/PDIF 1-2
13-14 : Phones 1-2
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

...the question is therefore
Is there a way round this ?
i.e. hacking into the core audio side

There must be a few Ultralite users who've given this some thought

Cheers

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:52 pm

Sorry, but I guess I'm not understanding what the real issue is then. If you can get it to play audio from Live, what difference does it make what the actual numbering is?

And I'm a complete idiot, the main outs are 1/2 on the Mac, sorry. Just had eye surgery last week and I misread the numbers (hard for me to focus). Sorry for any confusion.

avantronica · Post by **avantronica** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:39 pm

Looks like this is the end of the line then - unless there is someone out there who knows if it's possible to re-allocate the channel numbers in core audio

The issue is the annoyance of having to remember that the channel numbering of outs is staggered by two - e.g. i know that my in/out pair on 7/8 is set asside for a send return to stereo fx - but if i'm doing a bit of quick wiring i need to remember that the sends are on 9/10 - or if you were sending a seperate mix to someone else using other outs it just means remembering to add two - likewise looking at the motu meters for a bit of feedback means remembering the different numbering schemes

It might not bother every user, but it irritates me

Thanks for checking though