copy/paste selected notes in clip is nog working as expected

Eli V/d Vondel · Post by **Eli V/d Vondel** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:35 pm

Hello All,

I've started a thread in the tip's and trix section concerning copy/pasting midi events in the clip editor. See here

My first thoughts where that I was doing something wrong or missed something in trying this. But now I start to suspect that something is really not working.

There is no way you can copy a selected group of notes, marking a position and pasting them there (except if you mark them all with a loopselectionbrace). If you try to put the play cursor at certain position (very cumbersome) the notes are pasted somewhere completely random and mostly outside the clip (negative bar values like bar -5).
In the arrangement view, this procedure by copying a clip, placing the marker somewhere and past the clip at that position just works. But in the clips note editor this procedure doesn't work for copying individual (or rubberband selected) note events.

Any thoughts...
Eli

Eli V/d Vondel · Post by **Eli V/d Vondel** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:54 pm

Can Ableton look into this?
Thanks

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:44 am

I'm with you. The main problem as I see it is that there is no cursor in the clip view

Eli V/d Vondel · Post by **Eli V/d Vondel** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:59 am

Thanks Longjohns,

It's such an elementary thing and I need it very much. It stays unclear if it is something overlooked, not implemented or just malfunctioning. There isn't any convenient way to deviate this problem.

There is indeed no way to mark a position, even the play cursor doesn't work as a marked position.

GreetS
Eli

Amaury · Post by **Amaury** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:05 pm

Hi,

I think this is more for the realm of wishes, as it implies some dramatic change on the concept of MIDI editing in MIDI clips.

I've already added it to the never ending wishlist, but feel free to continue the discussion in the appropriate section of the forum.

Kind regards,
Amaury

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:18 pm

Yes, I suppose it is a feature request.

However I'd be very interested in an explanation of why it would be such a huge departure to be able to control the paste position inside the clip view.

Also I would be interested to hear a technical explanation of why you currently get things pasting at -XX bars, which I can't detect any rhyme or reason for...

Cryptic UK · Post by **Cryptic UK** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 4:26 pm

Amaury wrote:Hi,

I think this is more for the realm of wishes, as it implies some dramatic change on the concept of MIDI editing in MIDI clips.

I've already added it to the never ending wishlist, but feel free to continue the discussion in the appropriate section of the forum.

Kind regards,
Amaury

In with the rest

Amaury · Post by **Amaury** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:24 pm

longjohns wrote:Yes, I suppose it is a feature request.

However I'd be very interested in an explanation of why it would be such a huge departure to be able to control the paste position inside the clip view.

Well, for the very reason we do not have a 'cursor input' in MIDI clips.

longjohns wrote:Also I would be interested to hear a technical explanation of why you currently get things pasting at -XX bars, which I can't detect any rhyme or reason for...

I have no immediate answer to that. Does it not copy immediately after the last note/event for you?

best,
Amaury

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:29 am

If done in succession, yes.

But copy, then move the loop brace or start position, then paste. I can't figure out what makes it paste where it does. Sometimes forward of the original notes, sometimes behind, even into negative warp markers.

Amaury wrote:
longjohns wrote:Yes, I suppose it is a feature request.

However I'd be very interested in an explanation of why it would be such a huge departure to be able to control the paste position inside the clip view.

Well, for the very reason we do not have a 'cursor input' in MIDI clips.

Ok. I guess I was expecting an answer as to why there is no cursor in the clip view. In a way your response is like "it can't be done because we haven't done it yet"

No worries, just asking

Sometimes we get the feeling that there are underlying reasons why certain things can't be done - for example I suspect that this may be the case with un-warped looping. (?)

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:34 am

longjohns wrote: I can't figure out what makes it paste where it does. Sometimes forward of the original notes, sometimes behind, even into negative warp markers.

Probably has something to do with orange dots

Eli V/d Vondel · Post by **Eli V/d Vondel** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:53 pm

Amaury wrote: ...
I think this is more for the realm of wishes, as it implies some dramatic change on the concept of MIDI editing in MIDI clips.
...

Sorry, I really don't understand this statement.

It's like you choose some "operating system" which has a different approach then windows or a mac os. After some time you notice you can't copy files to another location; you can with folders (clips) but you can't with files (midinotes). I think your first thought would be that it's a serious dysfunctionallity not a "feature" of this OS.

Just to say that I think copying/pasting stuff is essential, and I don't see how it would discredit lives paradigm or its way of working. It's a base function. After everything you can do with live, the most simple thing is impossible or would be difficult to implement..
What's the use of copying notes as they are pasted just next to the next note without any control, I think if you copy a file on your harddisk it's not to be pasted next to that file but to another location or harddisk.

Also if you try to paste by moving the loopbrace the midi note is pasted outside the clip (negative bar value).
Some people here came with ersatz solutions to help out but at the end it's like going from south of Paris to the North via New York....and then your sent back to the north from Paris because you don't have the right visa....

I just think it's not a feature wish but it's a missing base function which is bugged if you try to applicate it.

It's understandable that ableton wants to keep live as slim and straight as possible without stuff as a logical editor to do all kinds of fancy stuff. But I don't see how determining a position where you can past some copied notes is a problem for lives concept or just for any technical reason.

Just someway it can be pasted at your windows arrow position...

Thanks
Eli

Amaury · Post by **Amaury** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:20 pm

Eli V/d Vondel wrote: Sorry, I really don't understand this statement.

It's like you choose some "operating system" which has a different approach then windows or a mac os. After some time you notice you can't copy files to another location; you can with folders (clips) but you can't with files (midinotes). I think your first thought would be that it's a serious dysfunctionallity not a "feature" of this OS.

Just to say that I think copying/pasting stuff is essential, and I don't see how it would discredit lives paradigm or its way of working. It's a base function. After everything you can do with live, the most simple thing is impossible or would be difficult to implement..
What's the use of copying notes as they are pasted just next to the next note without any control, I think if you copy a file on your harddisk it's not to be pasted next to that file but to another location or harddisk.

Also if you try to paste by moving the loopbrace the midi note is pasted outside the clip (negative bar value).
Some people here came with ersatz solutions to help out but at the end it's like going from south of Paris to the North via New York....and then your sent back to the north from Paris because you don't have the right visa....

I just think it's not a feature wish but it's a missing base function which is bugged if you try to applicate it.

It's understandable that ableton wants to keep live as slim and straight as possible without stuff as a logical editor to do all kinds of fancy stuff. But I don't see how determining a position where you can past some copied notes is a problem for lives concept or just for any technical reason.

Just someway it can be pasted at your windows arrow position...

Thanks
Eli

Hi,

I totally get your point(s), but let me clarify:

-this section is 'bugs and problems', and generally we try to influence people to only post 'bugs', means some existing feature that is broken. It happens that a percived bug is only a misunderstanding, and we or other users can communicate the right information.

-a 'wish' is for something that does not exist. It does not mean that it is not to be done, or that it is only for brand new ideas. It does not mean that it is something we ignore - on the contrary!

About the lack of possibility to copy notes to the loaction you want, whether is silly, just an obvious thing missing, takes 2 minutes to code, should never be there etc.. can be discussed, and I always encourage for discussion, as it also focusses us on the importance of a missing feature in Live (and there are others than that one), but also I was stressing that such discussion, since it is about something that is simply not there yet, is better to be in the feature wishlist section, as it gets more attention and is more easily found by user and by us.

I'm reading and considering every wish, others do too and no idea or claim is lost. I think history proves that we (at least try to) listen to our users. The ones from the forum, and some others that are not on the forum. We can't fulfill every wishes at once but try to do it at our best.

Hope it clears up my previous message. But hey, welcome to continue that discussion here even, I read it too

Regards,
Amaury

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 7:08 pm

I was just coming to the forums to post about this, I thought it was a bug too. When you paste midi notes, it just sort of randomly pastes where it wants. I'm not sure how that can't be a bug. Anyway, my vote for letting you click and paste where the notes go, or set the start locator, something...

+1

Eli V/d Vondel · Post by **Eli V/d Vondel** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:14 am

Amaury wrote:
Eli V/d Vondel wrote: Sorry, I really don't understand this statement.

It's like you choose some "operating system" which has a different approach then windows or a mac os. After some time you notice you can't copy files to another location; you can with folders (clips) but you can't with files (midinotes). I think your first thought would be that it's a serious dysfunctionallity not a "feature" of this OS.

Just to say that I think copying/pasting stuff is essential, and I don't see how it would discredit lives paradigm or its way of working. It's a base function. After everything you can do with live, the most simple thing is impossible or would be difficult to implement..
What's the use of copying notes as they are pasted just next to the next note without any control, I think if you copy a file on your harddisk it's not to be pasted next to that file but to another location or harddisk.

Also if you try to paste by moving the loopbrace the midi note is pasted outside the clip (negative bar value).
Some people here came with ersatz solutions to help out but at the end it's like going from south of Paris to the North via New York....and then your sent back to the north from Paris because you don't have the right visa....

I just think it's not a feature wish but it's a missing base function which is bugged if you try to applicate it.

It's understandable that ableton wants to keep live as slim and straight as possible without stuff as a logical editor to do all kinds of fancy stuff. But I don't see how determining a position where you can past some copied notes is a problem for lives concept or just for any technical reason.

Just someway it can be pasted at your windows arrow position...

Thanks
Eli
Hi,

I totally get your point(s), but let me clarify:

-this section is 'bugs and problems', and generally we try to influence people to only post 'bugs', means some existing feature that is broken. It happens that a percived bug is only a misunderstanding, and we or other users can communicate the right information.

-a 'wish' is for something that does not exist. It does not mean that it is not to be done, or that it is only for brand new ideas. It does not mean that it is something we ignore - on the contrary!

About the lack of possibility to copy notes to the loaction you want, whether is silly, just an obvious thing missing, takes 2 minutes to code, should never be there etc.. can be discussed, and I always encourage for discussion, as it also focusses us on the importance of a missing feature in Live (and there are others than that one), but also I was stressing that such discussion, since it is about something that is simply not there yet, is better to be in the feature wishlist section, as it gets more attention and is more easily found by user and by us.

I'm reading and considering every wish, others do too and no idea or claim is lost. I think history proves that we (at least try to) listen to our users. The ones from the forum, and some others that are not on the forum. We can't fulfill every wishes at once but try to do it at our best.

Hope it clears up my previous message. But hey, welcome to continue that discussion here even, I read it too

Regards,
Amaury

Hello Amaury,

Thanks,
The reason I posted here was because it seemed like a bug. If the function is not implemtented it gives the impression it's there but not working.

Ciao
Eli

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:10 pm

Amo,
Can you state how we are meant to paste 'in place' ? because I've never figured that out. 'After the last note' is a really odd solution, as it is only what I want about %10 of the time.

For copying 'in clip' I use ctrl&drag, but copying to another clip is impossible.
Generally if I try to use paste between two of Live's clip views the very next thing I say is "where the fuck did that go?"

Its always baffled me, as a consequence I have to use Arrangement (as I do for a lot of workarounds) slice copy paste consolidate.

it's pretty terrible IMO