128 parameters limitation

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 3:59 pm

Yes, the drop down list is how the Virus TI's automation parameters work, you can select whcih parameters you want added to the list of 128. Works very well, though it does add a step.

tgo · Post by **tgo** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:46 pm

I started working with a nice VST plug-in (Izotope Spectron). It sports 225 parameters and no MIDI learn. Now I have to choose between using it or using Live... I really cannot believe, such a good program and such an enormous limitation. Any solution will be good as long as it comes fast. It can be improved later on.

Nokatus · Post by **Nokatus** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:53 am

This really, really, really needs a fix.

ahlstrominfo · Post by **ahlstrominfo** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:52 am

acidman · Post by **acidman** » Sun Mar 18, 2007 10:21 pm

hey abes !!! whats up with u ?

we are waiting for this shit for more than 6 month !! so please fixxxxx it !! caus in my eyes it's not a limitation it`s a disaster !!!!!!!!!!!

mrnymms · Post by **mrnymms** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:52 am

+1 Please fix

Mr-Bit · Post by **Mr-Bit** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:01 am

+128

acidman wrote:hey abes !!! whats up with u ?

we are waiting for this shit for more than 6 month !! so please fixxxxx it !! caus in my eyes it's not a limitation it`s a disaster !!!!!!!!!!!

you mean years

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:23 am

Do a simple test.
Build a rack with loads of devices, then try to automate 1 parameter. Or even find it for that matter.
You'll notice Live will be getting a bit sluggish too.

Removing the limit is not the solution. Letting us specify which 128 parameters we want (and the ability to save that pref.) is what we really need.

The Live browser seems perfect for it.
I've been thinking about this a lot since I feel your pain and have the same problem.
Though just removing the limit will bring us more problems.

How about this?

- Right-click on a plugin and select "show list of parameters"

- A browser pops up, very similar to the MIDI learn or macro browser in Live 6

- It lists all the parameters of a plugin, be it 3, 225, 10 000,.....

- You have to ability to arrange the order of the parameters. Simply drag the parameter you want to automate, to one of the first 128 parameter positions.

- Once everything is arranged, you can save a preset of your arrangement.

Now this brings us to the juicy bit of my suggestion.
Since we arranged our parameters in custom sets of 128, the next logical request would be MIDI maps for devices..

No need to look hard, our parameters are already arranged to match CC's.
All we need is an option on the device to "receive MIDI from port x channel x"
If we want to control more then 128 parameters with a midi controller... Instead of switching presets on the controller, we could just switch them in Live.
Preferably by MIDI

2 birds killed with one elegant stone?

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 11:27 am

3 birds if you count replacing MIDI learn for a custom "automap".

Mr-Bit · Post by **Mr-Bit** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 12:30 pm

Yes Yes Yes

earwax · Post by **earwax** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:52 pm

Won't stop asking for a fix for this FLAW.

Letting us select which params to display per plugin seems like the best solution to me.
Doesn't even matter if it's not a dynamic process...

bipak · Post by **bipak** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:11 pm

@hoffman2k: Well, that would be a nice solution. But a faster one would be just removing the limitation with a little patch until they hacked a better one into live.

The user support doesn't seem to be good here

Mr-Bit · Post by **Mr-Bit** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:05 am

Actually abes are one of the best IMO

hoffman2k · Post by **hoffman2k** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:09 am

bipak wrote:@hoffman2k: Well, that would be a nice solution. But a faster one would be just removing the limitation with a little patch until they hacked a better one into live.

The user support doesn't seem to be good here

yeah. I'll pay every year for "hacks".

Have you actually read my post?
Removing the limit is a bigger problem then actually having it.

And how do you make the connection with customer support?
Because they don't add/remove something when you snap your fingers?

jasefos · Post by **jasefos** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:35 am

hoffman2k wrote:Do a simple test.
Build a rack with loads of devices, then try to automate 1 parameter. Or even find it for that matter.
You'll notice Live will be getting a bit sluggish too.

Removing the limit is not the solution. Letting us specify which 128 parameters we want (and the ability to save that pref.) is what we really need.

The Live browser seems perfect for it.
I've been thinking about this a lot since I feel your pain and have the same problem.
Though just removing the limit will bring us more problems.

How about this?

- Right-click on a plugin and select "show list of parameters"

- A browser pops up, very similar to the MIDI learn or macro browser in Live 6

- It lists all the parameters of a plugin, be it 3, 225, 10 000,.....

- You have to ability to arrange the order of the parameters. Simply drag the parameter you want to automate, to one of the first 128 parameter positions.

- Once everything is arranged, you can save a preset of your arrangement.

Now this brings us to the juicy bit of my suggestion.
Since we arranged our parameters in custom sets of 128, the next logical request would be MIDI maps for devices..

No need to look hard, our parameters are already arranged to match CC's.
All we need is an option on the device to "receive MIDI from port x channel x"
If we want to control more then 128 parameters with a midi controller... Instead of switching presets on the controller, we could just switch them in Live.
Preferably by MIDI

2 birds killed with one elegant stone?

Great suggestion! Personally I find the default layout of the Parameter list (as presented by plug-in devs) to be quite illogical. In fact I often find it necessary to "discover" a parameter in the list by tweaking the appopriate control in the plug-in GUI to see which parameter in the list reacts.

It would be great to hide parameters in the list which you don't intend to ever automate in order to make parameter indexes higher than the first 128 to be included.

Ultimately however I feel it should be up to the user to determine how many parameters are displayed. It's not uncommon for many complex modern soft synths to have far in excess of 128 parameters.

It's a big +1 for from me to have this limit removed for a future Live incarnation.

128 parameters limitation

Please fix it +1