Live 4 Announced.
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Guest
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You're the BEST GUEST
actually i totally disagreeAnonymous wrote:when did this thread become the Reason/Cubase thread??? No need for that shit when Live 4 comes out. Lets leave Reason loving and speculation to other more appropriate threads and forums, and leave this place for the praise and discussion of the best software to ever hit the market, Live 4.
it's very relevant and valid, firstly because ALOT of live users use it with reason, and secondly the Live 4 release is looking like it's going to have a really big impact on music technolgy and the discussion was about where that's all going to lead
I would much prefer to load scream or a malstrom into live direct and save CPU overhead if I had the choice - but this is the nature of this discussion - will Live 4 make things like reason redundant, or will it just make them, perhaps with Reason 3, even stronger together
I could use Live completely on its own, but it doesn't have synths and I will always want to use other Apps to generate sounds for Live.
I got alot out of Reason before I got Live, now it's an occasional thing, but will Live 4 prompt them to get a move on and come up with a jaw dropping update to keep Live company? I hope so.
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pixelmechanic
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jakeybubba
i was contimplating buying a new dual G5 this summer (after the new revisions are released in july).. and the announcement of Live 4 is just what pushed me over the edge. Checking the credit card balanaces now. it would seem that this new version has really streamlined things for people who were using live in a rewire format. no more cubase , or logic.. live can do so much more now. Live with Reason, Reaktor, Waves 4.0, and Pro-53.. look out!
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Guest
because people actually use Live to play out live, and though Reason rewires well, it is not 100% stable under rewire, and trying to record real-time playing of a Reason synth while you're playing as a session clip in Live is totally unreliable. Thus, those of us that gig out and actually play instruments live (be it soft synths triggered by a midi controller or hardware) are very excited for everything to happen inside Live--the most stable musical app and the only one designed for live performance (hence the name;). At this point, I have yet to find a soft synth solution while using Live that is 100% reliable and allows perfect recording of the vsti as a session clip (sometimes reason and FL work for this, but often the first few notes are WAY late, and its not my system, believe me).
Basically, all of the clamor for vsti and midi in Live is from people who perform live and know that rewire apps and workarounds are not as stable as just Live. They are okay for studio work, but for live performance, I prefer not to be worrying about crashes and such. Just look at Plasticmans' MUTEK disaster for reasons why we want everything in one app. (and reasons to A)test your gig setup in full VERY thoroughly and B)don't hype your technological show to the extreme and then come in and have technological follies and crashes).
Ryan
Basically, all of the clamor for vsti and midi in Live is from people who perform live and know that rewire apps and workarounds are not as stable as just Live. They are okay for studio work, but for live performance, I prefer not to be worrying about crashes and such. Just look at Plasticmans' MUTEK disaster for reasons why we want everything in one app. (and reasons to A)test your gig setup in full VERY thoroughly and B)don't hype your technological show to the extreme and then come in and have technological follies and crashes).
Ryan
not to be OT but...
the music software market is really huge, and extends beyond just what we need as performing/producing musicians. Reason is a great piece of software for introducing people to the world of computer-based music production. You get to learn basic concepts like sequencing, audio routing, sampling, synthesis, etc...without a lot of "extraneous" features getting in the way. I think this will remain true for some time. True, if the Props don't step it up they will lose some of their customer base, but i'd bet they'd still be in pretty good standing.
i don't mean to continue a non-Live based discussion, but, as mentioned previously, these are issues that affect the industry as a whole...
i don't mean to continue a non-Live based discussion, but, as mentioned previously, these are issues that affect the industry as a whole...
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Guest
Live 4
I think live is a fantastic program to get started writing music on. And it a fantastic program for a highly experienced song writer to write music on. Thats the beauty of live. It goes from being totally simple to being able to create the most amazing sound scapes and drum loops in no time at all. I have worked with pro tools, logic, sonar, and cubase sx over the past few years and they are all like adult's compared to live.
Let me explain.
The real talented people in the world (who actually write amazing music) let the music flow out of themselves and into the DAW, the faster and easiser this can happen, then the better the DAW. The point of being a musician or any kind of artist is that basically the more childlike you are....the better your are. I'm sorry but its true. Look at people like Aphex and squarepusher, there like big kids who fanny around on there computers for the fun of it, and they write amazing music. I think a lot of modern pop music is written by "adults" and it just tries to copy whatever is hip and groovy cool at the time , and does it very poorly.
I dont know what my point is really............err be more childlike I guess, oh and anybody who writes music in live is going to have a VASTLY huge advantage over anybody else now.
Can someone actually point out something that sonar,cubase,logic,or protools does better than Live? ????? I didnt think so
Let me explain.
The real talented people in the world (who actually write amazing music) let the music flow out of themselves and into the DAW, the faster and easiser this can happen, then the better the DAW. The point of being a musician or any kind of artist is that basically the more childlike you are....the better your are. I'm sorry but its true. Look at people like Aphex and squarepusher, there like big kids who fanny around on there computers for the fun of it, and they write amazing music. I think a lot of modern pop music is written by "adults" and it just tries to copy whatever is hip and groovy cool at the time , and does it very poorly.
I dont know what my point is really............err be more childlike I guess, oh and anybody who writes music in live is going to have a VASTLY huge advantage over anybody else now.
Can someone actually point out something that sonar,cubase,logic,or protools does better than Live? ????? I didnt think so
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UknowWho
Well after listening to Go Plastic I'd hardly say Sqare Pusher "fanny's round" on his computer. ALOT of thought time and effort goes into that level of beat programming and detail.
The trick IMHO is getting it sounding like a natural and smooth flowing idea that was executed quickly.
IE: Faster does not = better.
The best tracks I churn out are 2 month writing/production jobs (time allowed includes production,sound design,composition etc etc).
Getting ideas down fast is imperative for sure but that fine detail takes a while to sculpt and chisel away at IMHO ...........
The trick IMHO is getting it sounding like a natural and smooth flowing idea that was executed quickly.
IE: Faster does not = better.
The best tracks I churn out are 2 month writing/production jobs (time allowed includes production,sound design,composition etc etc).
Getting ideas down fast is imperative for sure but that fine detail takes a while to sculpt and chisel away at IMHO ...........
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robbmasters
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Re: Live 4
Yeah, loads of things.Emissary wrote:Can someone actually point out something that sonar,cubase,logic,or protools does better than Live?
Ironically one of the bigest ones for me is timestretching. Sure Live can do it in real time, but by not being restricted to doing it in real time, other DAWs they can use better algorithms to produce a higher quality result - and that's more important in a DAW than doing it in real time.
Similarly most DAWs will now make a stab at detecting hit points in your audio. Surely Live should be able to do this to automatically warp drum loops?
Not to mention (off the top of my head) markers, mapping song tempo to the tempo of a sample (rather than vice versa) as you can do in Cubase SX 2, MP3 export, integrated sample editing...
And we've yet to see if its MIDI handling comes close to other DAWs. As it's Live first MIDI incranation, I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't. It doesn't look like it wil have score or editing to start with. And I'll eat my hat if it has something comparable to Logic's environment.
If you really believe Live is (or will be in v4) better than all the other applications you list above, I'd suggest you go back to those applications and find out what they can do for you, as it seems there's a wealth of features you've yet to discover.
Don't get me wrong, I think Live is great. But it's a great live perfomance tool, but it's not the DAW to end all DAWs.
I know exactly what emissary is saying and agree with him but I think he's only describing one part of a many faceted process.
The 'childlike' state he's referring to IS the key part of creation - children by their very essence embody creativity - that's what life is to a child, a playground where everything has the potential to be a game and is fresh and new
The thing that then takes that creativity and makes it usable or accessible is the adult stuff of mixing, mastering, editing and all the painstaking and boring stuff. Children wouldnt have the patience to handle any of that - they just want to crete the art and move on to the next game
So it's a balance of both.
Logic, CUbase, etc blah ARE adult because they require alot of intellectual input, while apps like Live can be more child like because of their immediate nature.
The good thing about Live I think is that you can do the adult things with it too - well, perhaps with the help of higher quality plug-ins like waves etc for mastering - I can stick a C4 and L1 or L2 over the master output and have a pretty well rounded mix.
The 'childlike' state he's referring to IS the key part of creation - children by their very essence embody creativity - that's what life is to a child, a playground where everything has the potential to be a game and is fresh and new
The thing that then takes that creativity and makes it usable or accessible is the adult stuff of mixing, mastering, editing and all the painstaking and boring stuff. Children wouldnt have the patience to handle any of that - they just want to crete the art and move on to the next game
So it's a balance of both.
Logic, CUbase, etc blah ARE adult because they require alot of intellectual input, while apps like Live can be more child like because of their immediate nature.
The good thing about Live I think is that you can do the adult things with it too - well, perhaps with the help of higher quality plug-ins like waves etc for mastering - I can stick a C4 and L1 or L2 over the master output and have a pretty well rounded mix.
New rewire spec...
Perhaps Reason 3 will come with Rewire 3.0 with all kinds of fancy pants features.
Speed
Ok , I would agree with the mastering aspect being an adult process. But thats not what i write music for. If i got to the point where I was realeasing music on a label, then they would master it anyway. Mastering is meerly something I am required to do so my music sounds comparable to other productions out at the moment.
I'd just like to say right now though, Aphex and squarepusher put no time into writing their music at all (although they have immense creativity), thats why it is so fresh and invigorating. I managed to sneak into a warp aftershow party after the liverpool Phil show , and I managed to have a chat with Squarepusher and Jamie Liddel. They are really sound people. But they were telling me that they get stuff done so quickly it ridiculous. And they find it odd that people analyse their work so meticoulously and spend hours trying to program beats and sounds that are like theirs. Apparently Aphex wrote 200 songs for Druqks and he just got his mates to pick out the ones that he thought people would like the most so he could make a quick buck. Apparently the drill and bass sound that aphex and pusher and vibert have kinda made , just actually came from them programming random stuff in their step sequencer's and making smiley faces and big breasts in them, and then maybe giving them a quick tweak (not the breasts , the patterns). Obvioulsy they have huge amounts of talent, but dont go thinking these guys spend months writing a single tune, cos they dont. They have no one to compare their music too...so why should they. The best Warp guys probably spend less time on their individual tracks than your crystal methods or your Orbitals (who are both amazing I may add) but everyone seems to think they spend more time. Thats the genius of The aphex twin I guess. Thats why live is always going to be the best DAW out there, because its immediate and you can get a whole track written and sounding fresh in under and hour.
Play with music , dont make it become a chore
God a sound like a twat.......Just do what you want, and dont listen to me actually....Each to his own DAW
I'd just like to say right now though, Aphex and squarepusher put no time into writing their music at all (although they have immense creativity), thats why it is so fresh and invigorating. I managed to sneak into a warp aftershow party after the liverpool Phil show , and I managed to have a chat with Squarepusher and Jamie Liddel. They are really sound people. But they were telling me that they get stuff done so quickly it ridiculous. And they find it odd that people analyse their work so meticoulously and spend hours trying to program beats and sounds that are like theirs. Apparently Aphex wrote 200 songs for Druqks and he just got his mates to pick out the ones that he thought people would like the most so he could make a quick buck. Apparently the drill and bass sound that aphex and pusher and vibert have kinda made , just actually came from them programming random stuff in their step sequencer's and making smiley faces and big breasts in them, and then maybe giving them a quick tweak (not the breasts , the patterns). Obvioulsy they have huge amounts of talent, but dont go thinking these guys spend months writing a single tune, cos they dont. They have no one to compare their music too...so why should they. The best Warp guys probably spend less time on their individual tracks than your crystal methods or your Orbitals (who are both amazing I may add) but everyone seems to think they spend more time. Thats the genius of The aphex twin I guess. Thats why live is always going to be the best DAW out there, because its immediate and you can get a whole track written and sounding fresh in under and hour.
Play with music , dont make it become a chore
God a sound like a twat.......Just do what you want, and dont listen to me actually....Each to his own DAW