Whoosing/ Pulsing Sound (Gabriel and Dresden style)

superacidjax · Post by **superacidjax** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:53 am

Does anyone know how to use VCF-style filters in Ableton (like the Allen and Heath Xone 92 mixer)

More specifically, I'm trying to make that "whoosing/pulsating" sound that's very characteristic in most Gabriel and Dresden tracks. It sounds like the volume is being modulated or something, but I can't figure it out.

Perhaps you have some ideas?

spiral · Post by **spiral** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 7:20 am

had a listen to the live track on their site, sounds like LFO rate and delay to me

Joelb · Post by **Joelb** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:01 am

Sidechained kick?

laurence · Post by **laurence** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 2:06 pm

download propellor heads rebirth for free- from www.propellorheadmuseum.com i think- best off googling it, rebirth had a bona-fide vcf filter im sure you can rewire somehow to use it as an effect, how exactly im not sure...[/url]

ARDJ · Post by **ARDJ** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:54 pm

yeah they usually just have a pad with a huge threashold sidechained? so are you looking for that sound or how to create the effect?

superacidjax · Post by **superacidjax** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 1:32 am

ARDJ wrote:so are you looking for that sound or how to create the effect?

I'm looking more for the effect rather than the specific sound. I don't typically worry about other people's particular sounds.. but that pulsing thing is something I've accidentally done, but I can't really replicate it. I've used some heavy compression settings and sometimes it will squeeze the parts just right to provide that effect, but that's not the way to do it.

I was thinking that it might be a simple filter modulation with a rhytmic envelope. Or even some type of gate.

Thanks for everyone's help.. I'll let you know if any of the suggestions make it work..

anti-banausic · Post by **anti-banausic** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:58 am

If it is really repetitious, and only on the "and" beats, then it is probably just a pad with side-chain compression from the kick.

Otherwise, you will probably have to look at a multi-effect like Camelspace that has a filter which can be modulated by an lfo, or a stepsequencer. The lfo modulation can be set to sine, ramp, random square, and a few others. Gives really good atmosphere.

Best,
AB

PS. just in case you don't know. Side-chain compression uses the audio from the kick as a "side-chain" input which activates the compression. The input audio (the pad sound), will then be compressed when the kick happens, and this gives the chugging sound found in lots of dance music.

superacidjax · Post by **superacidjax** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:01 am

anti-banausic wrote:PS. just in case you don't know. Side-chain compression uses the audio from the kick as a "side-chain" input which activates the compression. The input audio (the pad sound), will then be compressed when the kick happens, and this gives the chugging sound found in lots of dance music.

VERY HELPFUL. Thanks very much. My routing skills are rather limited, so I appreciate your "3rd grader" explaination. That is exactly the answer I needed. Thanks again!

dizz1 · Post by **dizz1** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:48 pm

Whats a good sidechain plug for OSX for live?
1 reason I still love logic!

anti-banausic · Post by **anti-banausic** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:17 pm

http://www.teragon.org/products/DualComp/

Keep in mind it is in alpha.

I know there are others, but they can get expensive. Kjaerhus stuff?

ARDJ · Post by **ARDJ** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:02 pm

yup and i think we've sticky'd 3 sidechain tutorials in the tip & tricks area too so be sure to read up on those.

superacidjax if you wanted to post a sample for me i'll see what i can do

dabedoo · Post by **dabedoo** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:09 pm

Have a try with the otiumFX Compadre sidechain compressor....

I tried several compressor and this is the most accurate one imo...

But it's not free

superacidjax · Post by **superacidjax** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:15 pm

It's all about sidechaining! Thanks for the great help everyone!

portland · Post by **portland** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:09 pm

Hi there
check this out. i think this is what your looking for

http://sonictransfer.com/side-chain-com ... rial.shtml

it gives you that sound

electropoet · Post by **electropoet** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:46 pm

I can add a couple of things about gabriel and dresden's style.

First off...and this is really good to hear...they don't use a lot of fancy gear...a lot of there stuff is done with just logic and software plug's and synths. I'm sure when they mix down they use a nice analog board and some outboard effects...but the audio all channel out from a laptop. They are obviously great producers with a good fundamental background in mixing and engineering...so that certainly helps.

Secondly, I find much of their stuff very understated. Aside from the effect you're talking about, they excel at what I'd term 'washing'. For instance, and this not uncommon, but G&D do it very well...they'll take a nice sounding acoustic cymbal...put it in a sampler and then extend the release time a lot. Additionally, they add a nice tape like delay with a lot of feedback so when the cymbal dies out, the filter changes the sound...you could also do this by putting a filter after the delay in an FX return track as well.

They do this a lot with their string sounds too. They always use great sounds...but their strings are fantastic...a lot of very controlled reverb...and they modulate the release during swells...again not at all uncommon...but it gives their stuff they swooshy feeling you're talking about.

Finally, Mix mag had a 'Tracking Treasure Down' remix contest a while back which would let you download a G&D multitrack .als file for Live and remix it...It was very simple but definitely educational...the point being that part of their style is keeping things deceptively simple. It contained 4 tracks I believe...One for the Beat, 1 for Bass, 1 for synths, and one for Vox...but if you played all four back at the same time it was vintage G&D and the track was awesome. I could have frozen the track and converted it to mp3 and it would have fit nicely with the rest of their stuff I have. Again, it's not about having a ton of shit going on...its about having the right stuff going on...and thats why Gabriel and Dresden are great.

I would not be suprised if, as suggested, they put a compressor on a string sound and side chained it with a beat to get it pumping...if you set the attack and release on the compressor short enough, you'll get the famous gated string effect...but thats much easier to do in live by editing envelopes, rather than setting up a gate. I'm sure you could use an LFO of some sort to modulate the sound as well...or just stick a tremelo on it...lots of way to skin a cat...just make sure that the effect works in the context of the mix and you'll be set.

I have to say...I like all kinds of music, from folk to indie to rock to jungle and trance and all the way back again...but Gabriel and Dresden are two of my favorite musicians ever...so I had to chime in.

Peas.