Click Track question

wmastudios · Post by **wmastudios** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:31 pm

Hi. I am brand new to Ableton Live. I realize the question I am about to ask is the basis of Live and should be obvious, but I don't understand how to make it happen. I am using Live for live performances. I play bass so I use the foot controller to trigger a clip in Live. My question is, how do I send a click track to ONLY the monitor mix or to just the drummer for instance? I obviously don't want the click to be heard out of the mains (just our on-stage head phones)

I have Live running on my laptop with a firewire cable connected to an M-Audio Firewire Solo and then from the M-Audio to (2) channels in my mixer. How would I route a separate track (click track) to only the headphone mix? Is there a special trick for this or am I just missing the obvious??

Thanks for your help!

darkcatt · Post by **darkcatt** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:34 pm

I may be worng but I believe you need 2 sound cards.

One for the monitoring and one for the audience

jyang · Post by **jyang** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 4:34 pm

You don't really need 2 soundcards, you just need enough outputs. With the Firewire solo you are a bit limited, as there are only 2 analog line outputs, only enough for your stereo master track.

In order to send the global click track to a drummer or a 'monitor track' you need another pair of outputs - and you set the CUE OUT on the master channel to those outputs.

Was there any kind of M-Audio mixer software you got that allows you to use the headphone jack to monitor a different output path?

Ableton has quite flexible routing, so I think that in your case you are limited by your hardware.

wmastudios · Post by **wmastudios** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:09 pm

Thanks a lot for the help. There doesn't appear to be a way to route via the headphone output through the M-Audio software so I will need to pick up a new device with more outputs.

I'm not following this completely:
In order to send the global click track to a drummer or a 'monitor track' you need another pair of outputs - and you set the CUE OUT on the master channel to those outputs."

Are you saying that I won't use the built in metronome to send to the second output? Do I create a new track that has some sort of special click track functionality? I am pretty confused as to how this would work. Where would I send the 2 outputs on my mixer? I would assume the drummer or whomever is monitoring the click will want to hear both the master mix from Live and the click in stereo. I suppose the click could be on one side or the other, but I just don't see how all this will work.

Thanks for your help!!

jyang · Post by **jyang** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:43 pm

Don't worry about the outputs on your mixer - what is important are the outputs on your soundcard.

Sorry if I confused you, I will try to clear it up. There are multiple ways to route audio within Live, and the way you choose depends on your setup and how complicated it is. I would suggest reading the Live manual if you are new at the program. It will explain a lot.

Here is one way you could do it with a sound card that had multiple outputs.

- Your master outputs (1/2) are connected directly to your speakers, which everyone can hear.

- Your drummer however wants to listen to the music through his headphones, and also listen to a click track. One way to do this is to set the CUE option (found on the MASTER TRACK) to a different output - let's say 3/4. Notice how the SOLO button can now be changed to the CUE button. Now when the metronome is turned on it will be sent to the CUE OUTPUT (3/4). Also any track that has the CUE button selected will be sent to outputs 3/4 as well. Even previewing samples can be sent to the CUE outputs only. Outputs 3/4 could be connected to a stereo input of a mixer, and your drummer could plug headphones into the mixer - also allowing him to control his volume. The mixer acts as a kind of headphone matrix, because you can't just plug the stereo headphone jack into a mono line output of your soundcard because you'll just get 1 channel.

It starts getting more complicated if you need to provide monitoring for more than one person, and if they only want to hear certain tracks - or even a different click sound. You can create your own click track and use the return tracks etc...

Hope that helps.

wmastudios · Post by **wmastudios** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:29 pm

Ahhh, I think I understand now! I will do some experimenting and let you know how it works. Would be nice to have the flexibility to let everyone hear the click track if they want. Sounds like this option would require a separate mixer for each musician on stage. For now, I think if the drummer could hear the click track, we should be just fine. Any suggestions on a good audio sound device for my laptop? Like I mentioned, I am using the M-Audio Solo, but I need more outputs. I see the M-Audio 410 has plenty of outputs but they are unbalanced. I really want to stay clear of any unbalanced connections. What do most people use with Abelton Live and their laptop?

Thanks!!

xxxmorphicxxx · Post by **xxxmorphicxxx** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:24 pm

When I used Ableton Live in my band, I simply RECORDED a click track to an audio track and panned it hard right. Everything I wanted the audience to hear I panned hard left. Then out of my 2 output soundcard, the right output went to wireless in-ear monitors for my drummer, the left output went to a direct box and then to the sound guys mixer. Most venues are mono in my experience anyways.

wmastudios · Post by **wmastudios** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:33 pm

So all your drummer hears is the click track with that setup right? Then he must have a monitor on stage to hear everything else??

wmastudios · Post by **wmastudios** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:20 am

I have been researching this situation and came across this:
http://www.mackie.com/products/hmx56/index.html

I believe this board will take care of all my needs. I can run one output of my M-Audio solo to one input of the Mackie HMX-56 for the click and the other output to a channel on the main mixer so the Ableton Live stuff can be heard out front without the click. Then anyone that has ear monitors coming from the HMX-56 can hear the click if they want. Since there are 4 inputs per channel on the HMX-56, I can setup custom headphone mixes for each musician on stage. For example, if the guitar player wants to hear the entire mix plus his guitar in a separate input, he can do that. He can hear the click, his guitar, and everyone else simultaneously. With the individual level controls for the inputs, he can crank his guitar up as loud as he wants or the lead singer can crank up his vocal as loud as he wants so it cuts through nicely. The only bad thing about it is one person will control all these levels for you. So if the bass player is running sound on stage, then he will probably control the levels for everyone. They will have to let the control person know if they need a level changed.

I wanted to explain this in detail to make sure this all makes sense to you experts out there and if I have it right, maybe this scenario can help someone else that is doing this same thing. That HMX-56 is only $200 so to me, it's a no brainer if my idea works!!

Let me know what you think!
Thanks...
Brian

jyang · Post by **jyang** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:32 am

Hmmm.

The Matrix is cool, but I still think you should upgrade your audio interface, so you get more inputs and outputs.

I try to use Stereo where possible - what about stereo delays and panning? Heaps of venues run stereo.

You need to work out exactly what your setup would be and who would monitor what... Both in a rehearsal situation and in a live situation. Remember at a venue you can usually customize foldback through the main mixer... How many people are in the band? How much of it is electronic? Are any of them going to plug into ableton or just play live into a separate amp? As I said before your particular setup will determine which option is best...

Good Luck!

wmastudios · Post by **wmastudios** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:50 pm

Yeah, I agree on the stereo suggestion. I have the M-Audio Solo so I thought I would make it work for the time being. I will certainly upgrade it, but I came across that Mackie and thought that thing would be PERFECT to handle all my current needs. My band is not that sophisticated nor are we all that "electronic". We are a three piece and lacking some accompaniments that Abelton Live will handle nicely for us. Nothing too fancy at all. It will probably even be a bit cheesy until I get comfortable with all of Live's features. My biggest concern at the moment is making sure the band stays in sync with Live. That click track is very important as well as no latency. I worry that Live won't be able to keep up with an actual live band situation.

Thanks for your feedback. It's very helpful!

jyang · Post by **jyang** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:01 pm

No problem, glad to be of help.

Live will most definitely be able to handle a live band situation - the question is how your computer/soundcard will handle Live...

Michael-SW · Post by **Michael-SW** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:35 pm

Don't forget that you can set up various sub mixes in Live too. If you substitute the metronome with a audio track playing a simple drum loop, you can easily create a sub mix that has both the main stereo mix and the drum loop and then route that output to a separate audio out.

wmastudios · Post by **wmastudios** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 2:39 pm

What do you use for a sound card? I assume most people use laptops on stage for a live situation. What is the best audio device to buy for a laptop? I get a lot of clicks and pops and one of my books explain how to get rid of that. I'm not so sure it's Live causing it because I get it through iTunes and other audio software as well. It's very annoying and that will be my next bit if research on this project! Any feedback on that would be most helpful too!!

By the way, my laptop is an HP Pavilion Turion 64 ML-40 2.19GHZ, w/2gig RAM. Windows XP w/SP2. It's currently running XP Media Center Edition. I was told Media Center won't work with my Firewire Solo, but it does work...just get the clicks and pops. Let me know what audio device is recommended.

Thanks again!!

laird · Post by **laird** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 6:19 pm

You wont necessarily need a second mixer, either, just a mixer with Sub outs. (sub 1/2 get music + click, sub 3/4 get just music)

Also, before buying another mixer or another soundcard... do you have any drum machines or other MIDI gear? If so, you can just use a MIDI hardware device to create your click track-- this is often cheaper than multi-output soundcards.