Hey guys...I have been djing for about 8 years and have finally decided to throw my hat into the production ring. Unfortunately I have absolutely no idea of where to start. I have fooled around with Reason and a little bit with Live but have had a really hard time getting anything I do to sound like anything other than something coming out of an old Casio.
Please help!
Production Newbie seeks help
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jonahgabriel
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:39 pm
you should pick up a real DAW software, like digital performer , logic, or pro tools.
reason and live are like specialty instrument / performance programs. you need something to track and mix several audio files at once.
I hate pro tools / digidesign but if you want to make money in the business you gotta know that program more than anything else because its the standard.
the reason i hate them is that their interfaces are overpriced and you HAVE to buy a digidesign interface to use pro tools. I also find pro tools to be geared more toward the audio engineer and not the musician. it's not as conducive to songwriting as some of the other DAWs out there.
you should also buy some books on the subject, like 'modern recording techniques' and something on acoustics (physics of sound) so you understand how sound works and can be manipulated
reason and live are like specialty instrument / performance programs. you need something to track and mix several audio files at once.
I hate pro tools / digidesign but if you want to make money in the business you gotta know that program more than anything else because its the standard.
the reason i hate them is that their interfaces are overpriced and you HAVE to buy a digidesign interface to use pro tools. I also find pro tools to be geared more toward the audio engineer and not the musician. it's not as conducive to songwriting as some of the other DAWs out there.
you should also buy some books on the subject, like 'modern recording techniques' and something on acoustics (physics of sound) so you understand how sound works and can be manipulated
If you have, or have access to, Reason and Live, I see no reason to buy more software. Digital Performer wont make you sound better. If anything, more complicated programs will be a hindrance, imo.
Not sure why Reason sounds like a casio... and Live? Are you sampling loops? Stop sampling casios! Anywho, 8 years of DJing you probably have a ton of records. Sample them. Then build on top of loops you swipe and morph.
Its much easier to do this in Live than it is Reason.
Sounds like you already know what sounds good... I think you'll eventually find THATS the hard part. Have fun!
Not sure why Reason sounds like a casio... and Live? Are you sampling loops? Stop sampling casios! Anywho, 8 years of DJing you probably have a ton of records. Sample them. Then build on top of loops you swipe and morph.
Its much easier to do this in Live than it is Reason.
Sounds like you already know what sounds good... I think you'll eventually find THATS the hard part. Have fun!
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jonahgabriel
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:39 pm
laird wrote:If you have, or have access to, Reason and Live, I see no reason to buy more software. Digital Performer wont make you sound better. If anything, more complicated programs will be a hindrance, imo.
Not sure why Reason sounds like a casio... and Live? Are you sampling loops? Stop sampling casios! Anywho, 8 years of DJing you probably have a ton of records. Sample them. Then build on top of loops you swipe and morph.
Its much easier to do this in Live than it is Reason.
Sounds like you already know what sounds good... I think you'll eventually find THATS the hard part. Have fun!
I have a bunch of friends who use CuBase so I might look into getting getting that to add to my tool arsenal.
As for the Casio comment...I that was a bit of hyperbole. Everything just sounds flat...I think it is because I dont know how to
1) EQ stuff correctly
2) Don't know how to apply delay and reverb correctly
As for taking loops...how legal is that, especially if I want to get a track signed eventually?
I also have Reason and Live, and for my purposes they work very well together--no Casio sounds here! 
I'd suggest becoming very familiar with them through alternately messing around with them and reading the manuals inside and out. These two activities feed off each other--you learn the software on your own terms and give your creativity free reign when you experiment. When you read up on the programs in depth, you effectively expand your creative possibilities through a greater knowledge of what these tools can do.
In general (and I stress IN GENERAL), it's not so much the exact software you're using that leads to good results as much as it's how well you know what you're using. In my case, although there's a lot of other options out there, I've decided to stick with Live and Reason and work within those environments. Others may prefer Protools, Sonar, Live, Logic, or any combination of the other mountain of music software out there.
Also, upgrade to Reason 3 if you haven't already (the Combinator and M-Class Mastering Suite are indispensible), and buy the book Power Tools for Reason 3.0 by Kurt Kuraski. The book is not a rewrite of the manual; in addition to lots of creative ideas for using Reason, it explains audio principles and fills in gaps of the manual.
To sum up--never stop learning about your tools of choice, and enjoy writing music!
I'd suggest becoming very familiar with them through alternately messing around with them and reading the manuals inside and out. These two activities feed off each other--you learn the software on your own terms and give your creativity free reign when you experiment. When you read up on the programs in depth, you effectively expand your creative possibilities through a greater knowledge of what these tools can do. In general (and I stress IN GENERAL), it's not so much the exact software you're using that leads to good results as much as it's how well you know what you're using. In my case, although there's a lot of other options out there, I've decided to stick with Live and Reason and work within those environments. Others may prefer Protools, Sonar, Live, Logic, or any combination of the other mountain of music software out there.
Also, upgrade to Reason 3 if you haven't already (the Combinator and M-Class Mastering Suite are indispensible), and buy the book Power Tools for Reason 3.0 by Kurt Kuraski. The book is not a rewrite of the manual; in addition to lots of creative ideas for using Reason, it explains audio principles and fills in gaps of the manual.
To sum up--never stop learning about your tools of choice, and enjoy writing music!
I just switched from Cubase to Live...
again, neither one makes me sound more "professional".
secrets to sounding good:
1. start with good sounding source material
2. When EQing, its generally best to subtract the bad stuff. rather than boost the good stuff
3. You can use EQ guides like http://www.modcam.com/emusic/Frequency_ranges.pdf to help you, spectral anaylsers can help, doing an A/B comparison with well mixed/mastered CDs can help... nothing is a sure-fire fix, though.
4. Compression can bring life to a mix. Over-use of COmpressors can also kill all dynamics and turn everything into a muddy brick wall.
5. Reverb: generally, if you can hear the reverb, you are using too much reverb. Turn the mix level down (or use an effects Send/Return)
6. practice practive practice!
All those years as a DJ _will_ pay off. A little practive using EQs and compressors and you'll get the jist of how and what you can do to make stuff sound better (or worse). The hard part is being able to HEAR it!
As for sampling.... technically, you can't do it without paying royalities. I suggest you do whatever you find the most fun, and dont worry about getting signed to a major label in your first year of making music.
again, neither one makes me sound more "professional".
secrets to sounding good:
1. start with good sounding source material
2. When EQing, its generally best to subtract the bad stuff. rather than boost the good stuff
3. You can use EQ guides like http://www.modcam.com/emusic/Frequency_ranges.pdf to help you, spectral anaylsers can help, doing an A/B comparison with well mixed/mastered CDs can help... nothing is a sure-fire fix, though.
4. Compression can bring life to a mix. Over-use of COmpressors can also kill all dynamics and turn everything into a muddy brick wall.
5. Reverb: generally, if you can hear the reverb, you are using too much reverb. Turn the mix level down (or use an effects Send/Return)
6. practice practive practice!
All those years as a DJ _will_ pay off. A little practive using EQs and compressors and you'll get the jist of how and what you can do to make stuff sound better (or worse). The hard part is being able to HEAR it!
As for sampling.... technically, you can't do it without paying royalities. I suggest you do whatever you find the most fun, and dont worry about getting signed to a major label in your first year of making music.
One last thing:
A/B comparison.
Does your stuff sound like "casios" because you are listening on your computer's built-in soundcard, or through multimedia speakers, or any sound system that is somehow sub-PA quality?
Or does the stuff you make in Live/Reason sound cheap compared to your favorite CDs, when you play back both on the same sound system?
A/B comparison.
Does your stuff sound like "casios" because you are listening on your computer's built-in soundcard, or through multimedia speakers, or any sound system that is somehow sub-PA quality?
Or does the stuff you make in Live/Reason sound cheap compared to your favorite CDs, when you play back both on the same sound system?
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jonahgabriel
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:39 pm
I run my sound though my M-Audio Ozone through my Dennon mixer out to my Event Monitors.laird wrote:One last thing:
A/B comparison.
Does your stuff sound like "casios" because you are listening on your computer's built-in soundcard, or through multimedia speakers, or any sound system that is somehow sub-PA quality?
Or does the stuff you make in Live/Reason sound cheap compared to your favorite CDs, when you play back both on the same sound system?
I am sure once I get the hang of some of the techniques you mentioned (ie, eq, compression, etc), stuff will get much better.
it's not about one software sounding more 'professional' than the other. in fact, a wav file recorded with Live and Digital Performer will sound almost identical. It is about maximizing workflow for the given task. For the remix artist, Live very well may be your best option for tracking and mixing. But if you are going to be recording rock bands and tracking over 10 sources at a time, Live isn't your best option. Live isn't meant for this and the layout of the program would be a hinderance. You could technically get it done, but it would be much easier in a program meant for serious multitracking.
With the exception of Live's lack of crossfading clips on a single track,
I think recording Rock (or any music, in a linear format) is just as easy to do in Live 6.0's arrangement view as it is in Cubase or Pro Tools.
In fact, I just switched from using Cubase and ProTools to Live 6.0, at the suggestion of a couple of Recording Engineer friends of mine. I was totally skeptical (no way, Live is only good for loop-based live performances, right?) but the bottom line is its just as easy.
Actually, Live's audio routing is easier to use than Cubase's imo, which is great... and the ability to capture scenes and arrange them in a more non-linear format in the session view is powerful.
I think recording Rock (or any music, in a linear format) is just as easy to do in Live 6.0's arrangement view as it is in Cubase or Pro Tools.
In fact, I just switched from using Cubase and ProTools to Live 6.0, at the suggestion of a couple of Recording Engineer friends of mine. I was totally skeptical (no way, Live is only good for loop-based live performances, right?) but the bottom line is its just as easy.
Actually, Live's audio routing is easier to use than Cubase's imo, which is great... and the ability to capture scenes and arrange them in a more non-linear format in the session view is powerful.
This is so wrong I just have to give you my 2 cents.uncovered wrote:you should pick up a real DAW software, like digital performer , logic, or pro tools.
reason and live are like specialty instrument / performance programs. you need something to track and mix several audio files at once.
I hate pro tools / digidesign but if you want to make money in the business you gotta know that program more than anything else because its the standard.
the reason i hate them is that their interfaces are overpriced and you HAVE to buy a digidesign interface to use pro tools. I also find pro tools to be geared more toward the audio engineer and not the musician. it's not as conducive to songwriting as some of the other DAWs out there.
you should also buy some books on the subject, like 'modern recording techniques' and something on acoustics (physics of sound) so you understand how sound works and can be manipulated
If one can't make good music then the DAW is not to blame. If you can handle the DAW it doesn't really matter whether you use PT, Live, DP, Logic or anything else. You can make great sounding music on a 4-track if you know what you're doing.
You don't have to know Pro Tools to make it in this industry. And I say that as someone who REALLY likes Pro Tools (the program in itself). If you're a musician then you can work in any program you like, bounce it down and take it to another studio... or better yet, record in a decent studio.
Even as an audio engineer, producer or songwriter you don't have to use Pro Tools. All the major DAWs are good these days, pick one and learn it in and out so your workflow gets uninterrupted and you can spend most of the time making music. Simple as that. Live is different and has a different workflow, while I use it as this poster describes it (as an instrument, rewired into Pro Tools), that doesn't mean it can't be used as your only and main DAW.
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