how to get away from the ableton sound.

[leisuremuffin]

the usual suspects;

- Operator (especially the 'spread' function)
but who cares? A Juno 106 also always sounds as a Juno 106..
That's the character of the synth..

- Impulse's stretch function (because of it's bad quality, it has it's own sound)

- Beat Repeat (because it basicly does a pretty straight forward repeat)
but it also depends alot on how you use it..

- Autofilter.. (filter is bad, and therefore recognizable i.m.h.o)

My take on this is that you can actually use any of those devices in such a way that they are not recognizable.

I use all of the things (abes reverb, operator, pingpong, autofilter, shit, all of the effects, even beat repeat) that people say give an "ableton" sound and my music still sounds like leisure muffin, not ableton, except when i want it to. These things are simple parts that can be combined into greater wholes, or used in an understated manner....


not trying to insult anybody, but its that whole robert smith, "again and again and again and again..." with these threads. that's why i make light of them.


.lm.

[Poster]

the usual suspects;

- Operator (especially the 'spread' function)
but who cares? A Juno 106 also always sounds as a Juno 106..
That's the character of the synth..

- Impulse's stretch function (because of it's bad quality, it has it's own sound)

- Beat Repeat (because it basicly does a pretty straight forward repeat)
but it also depends alot on how you use it..

- Autofilter.. (filter is bad, and therefore recognizable i.m.h.o)

My take on this is that you can actually use any of those devices in such a way that they are not recognizable.

absolutely..

I just pointed out these devices because they can be very recognizable at times,
which doesn't bother me at all..

[forge]

actually, it's pretty simple - you get this with any kind of music program that has it's own personality

It just means you've overdosed a bit - you need to ease back on the things that stand out as uniquely Live, you know try a few different external devices/soft synths/FX etc - get out more!

too much of any good thing is always a bad thing

Lives plug-ins actually sound great, but you're bound to get sick of them if that's all that's in there

[mikemc]

Can we put up a test say 5 songs, of which 2 made in Live, and 3 in other tools. (Not too many beatrepeats) and then we can discuss better.

There will be a sharp divergence of the thread at this point:

• Group 1: those who want to set up the test, analyze and discuss it.
  
  Group 2: those who have seen multiple versions of this discussion and their subsequent associated tests, who will discuss the genetic engineering of huge, angry badgers that feed specifically on Group 1.

[beatpoet]

If you know any software, hardware, synth, effect, instrument well enough you will be able to pick out the little things that makes it what it is.

Not a bad thing once you are aware of it.

If something sounds good use it.

[forge]

Group 2: those who have seen multiple versions of this discussion and their subsequent associated tests, who will discuss the genetic engineering of huge, angry badgers that feed specifically on Group 1.
[/list]

and wash it down with a nice cool glass of cat milk

[ethios4]

I didn't realize for awhile that the sound quality suffers, even if the tempo has not been changed.d.

prove it.

I'm talking about warp modes here, not summing bus or anything like that. Didn't the word come down from the Abes themselves that only RePitch leaves the audio unaffected at original tempo? Aside from warping issues, I personally don't believe Live sounds any different than Logic, Cubase, etc. If we need a phase-cancellation test here for warp modes, I can, but I'm pretty sure this ground has been gone over.

[Poster]

also;
your audience doesn't give a shit about wheter your tunes sound like app A or B..

musicians can be such geeky badgers..

[mikemc]

Group 2: those who have seen multiple versions of this discussion and their subsequent associated tests, who will discuss the genetic engineering of huge, angry badgers that feed specifically on Group 1.
[/list]

and wash it down with a nice cool glass of cat milk

not to be too discouraging of Group 1 -- if you render a track out, then pull it back in as a clip with autowarping on but at the *same BPM*, I believe there is a difference in the sound.

I have noted a particular 'darkness' in the upper low/low mid range, and went about creating a VST (sorry, synthedit, windows only) that would help dispel that, and it seems to work, it's called 'ambiotenzil.dll' and you can download it here http://utenzil.com/vst/ if you are adventurous. There is one setting, indicated in the scribble, that works particular well for me.

If someone with 'cross platform capability' would like to port it to Mac, pm me and I will gladly put up the se file.

[edit] note that my VSTs are pretty crappy, at the best mildly amusing for some brief period.

[leisuremuffin]

I didn't realize for awhile that the sound quality suffers, even if the tempo has not been changed.d.

prove it.

I'm talking about warp modes here, not summing bus or anything like that. Didn't the word come down from the Abes themselves that only RePitch leaves the audio unaffected at original tempo? Aside from warping issues, I personally don't believe Live sounds any different than Logic, Cubase, etc. If we need a phase-cancellation test here for warp modes, I can, but I'm pretty sure this ground has been gone over.

no it did not come down from the abes themselves.


the abes correctly claim that warping does not affect a clip at it's orig. tempo with the one exception of complex mode.

there has been a phase cancellation test for warp modes. I did it. And i told other people how they can quiite easily do it themselves. Y'know what happened? A couple of assholes told me that the phase cancellation test didn't matter and that i was full of shit. Then they acted like i was crazy for getting upset with them when they refused to provide any backup for their statements. nothing. no evidence, just them saying that they were "pros" and that i didn't know what i was talking about despite the fact i provided clear and easy to reproduce EVIDENCE.


so yeah, i'm tired of hearing about that shit.


.lm.

[leisuremuffin]

lets just keep going with this while i'm nice and pissed off. One of these cats also believes that to properly warp any track, you must have a warp marker every bar... also complete nonsense. But don't try to argue it to him, he's right and you are wrong and no evidence to support your claim matters in the face of his stubborn ignorance that he calls "experience" assholes.



.lm.

[b0unce]

Y'know what happened? A couple of assholes told me that the phase cancellation test didn't matter and that i was full of shit.

lol - you've got to love that kind of gormless bravado

[mikemc]

the abes correctly claim that warping does not affect a clip at it's orig. tempo with the one exception of complex mode.

.lm.

yep, the mode is important. and the phase cancellation test only matters just like 1 - 1 = 0 matters

[R.J.Dubya]

Well now that the original poster has probably been scared off for good, I say let's turn this thread into an ableton warp mode crap fest !

Complex mode blows! Beat mode should have transient detection rather than simple choppy 16th or 32nd note settings!

zap! bam! boom! take that! mmmphff!

[NipplesAndBass]

wow, i really am group one here. i think we shoudl all be or this thread is pointless. i just wanted to point out i can really hear it's ableton in alot of tracks made by other ppl. i've used ableton myself for alot of years, since ableton 1 actually, but i have alot of outboard and don't use operator at all really. i run everything through many channels on an analog desk (mackie) and no, i don't use presets LOL.

i don't have this problem myself, as so many other bits of equipment go into the equation when making my stuff. but after saying that, i actually have done alot of stuff out and about, away from the studio, on my powerbook and i do find this sound i talk of can creep into things if you're not careful.

i'm of the thought that in music production, if i've heard it done, i really don't want to use it in my tracks. i figured that beat repeat out as soon as i got it, got excited by it a little, but as soon as i heard it once on a track, i never used it again. i've actually been producing since the atari (well actually the zx spectrum hehehe) and really do notice a colouring of sound here.

i'm not talking about tricks and overused plugins here. i'm talking about the 'colour' ableton gives to the sound. just thought it would make a nice discussion if anyone else noticed, that's all hehehe

ps i'm sorry if this has been discussed before in depth but even though i've been checking for the forum out on and off for many years, i've never posted or got too involved. hope you forgive me!