Timeline Independent Automation Clips

donato · Post by **donato** » Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:59 pm

For LIVE 7, automation clips for timeline independent automation. I imagine clips that would contain automation data only (fade time and type, panning etc) that could be assigned freely to audio clips and could be triggered from the session view just like audio clips. It would also be great if such automation clips could additionally contain optional commands such as to stop playing back the assigned audio clip after completion of the fade, for example. I work a lot in theatre and live performance contexts with LIVE and it is a great tool for this, especially in rehearsals, but you can't do (cross)fades which are essential for most theatre and performance applications. If Ableton were to implement the possibility of such automation clips, LIVE would surely become the unrivalled audio show-control software in theatre and other performance contexts.

Cheers,

Donato

vampiredmx · Post by **vampiredmx** » Sat May 05, 2007 5:35 pm

I also work in theatre and currently use Live 6 for all our my shows. Some form of automation of clips or even an autofader with programmable envelopes is the thing I desire most in Live (along with surround panning).

There are a number of specialized computer based show sound and MIDI show control systems, however they tend to be unfriendly and cumbersome to programme, with few facilties to "busk".

I feel that that the promotion of Live as a theatre sound design tool and the inclusion of theatre specific features has been neglected. This is an area that is ripe for expansion as there are few application, particulary for the Mac, that are as easy to use, powerful and affordable as Live.

Regards.

donato · Post by **donato** » Thu May 17, 2007 1:15 pm

hi there,

thanks for posting the reply. i think there is a genuine need for the kind of automation we are talking about in the user community. the sound designers/composers i have spoken to about working with LIVE (and i have spoken to some fairly eminent ones, both in the uk and internationally) all agree that object based automation clips are the only element missing to make it the perfect theatre/live performance sound design tool. there's a real market out there, ableton!!! also, there's a fairly loud buzz in the forum here, loads of people are requesting easy-to-use automation. especially if ableton are now collaborating with cycling '74, hopefully they will find ways to make object-based automation happen in the next version of LIVE. it would be the icing on the cake.

why object-based? because the 'virtual mixing board' concept is unnecessary - we are on the digital plane, channels and faders belong to the hardware era... software doesn't need them. the computers are fast enough now to assign plugins, routing, panning, volume information changes etc etc directly to a waveform, rather than to 'channels' and 'faders'. but if for some reason the 'mixing board' has to be retained, why not make both options possible?

cheers,

donato

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Thu May 17, 2007 1:19 pm

Do a search here for Dummy Clips, might be just what you need.

donato · Post by **donato** » Thu May 17, 2007 5:30 pm

hi Tarekith,

i'm aware of the 'dummy clips' iac bus option, but it is clunky. again, you are basically programming a motorfader - so you first have to set the fader to a level, then find out what the corresponding midi value is, then draw the curve. you also have to figure out how many seconds to a bar because when you're drawing midi automation envelopes, the timeline is in bars and beats, rather than seconds. also, if you want to reuse the same 'channel' you need another 'dummy clip' to reset the 'channel fader' to the original value. to program the automations, you need to attach your midicontroller... the solution is neither fast, nor intuitive enough, nor truly elegant and functional in the way a well-designed automation solution needs to be. though it would be worth retaining the drawability of the desired curves. what would be a far better solution is automation linked to the individual clip in the session view rather than to a 'channel'. unfortunately, the fader for the gain regulation of each individual clip cannot be automated individually. if you assign a midicontroller to one of them, it affects all clips in the session. changing that alone would be a big step in the right direction. LIVE is brilliant - there's just this one missing link.

cheers,

donato

nobbystylus · Post by **nobbystylus** » Fri May 18, 2007 12:00 am

+1 for me