fundamentals to make a tune?

silverlulu · Post by **silverlulu** » Sat May 19, 2007 4:29 am

so yeah i have been using ableton for about a year now. i think it's phat and 2 of my mates use it. i have tried fruity loops but found it less friendly...

i have been hating opening up ableton for so long as i didn't really understand fundamentals of music and beat structure etc... to be honest i am fairly lacking in this department but i am beginning to understand and its like a light has been switched on in my brain and i seem to be on it loads now. i'm starting to get something out of it now and the relief is awesome.

is there any tutorials anywhere explaining how to make a whole track at all. i don't mean the tutorials you get with it.

i am frustrated by my lack of ability in this department. i know what some of you might say "there is not one way to make a track" and the art is making something creative. but i think i need to know how to make tracks before i can start messing around.

god it's hard to explain really... i make a beat and thats cool. then i make a melody which lays over it. thats all good. so i have something i like but then where do i go? bass, or lead bass, i don't really understand. i know my songs need more but don't know where to go from here.

i am making hiphop, but not jumpy gangsta stuff, slower and more reflective so if i have some nice piano going. i don't know how to add bass to it. do i add bass on the same keys? so i make a totally different tune with the bass. or am i supposed to be making a different tune to compliment it with another synth/instrument. how do i add atmosphere .

i realise i might sound really stupid, but part of me getting better is admitting i have a problem. now i want to work on getting it right.

Please help me!

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Sat May 19, 2007 4:51 am

take what you have. start with drums for 8 measures, then add bass for 8 measures, then add piano for 8 measures, then take away the piano and add another lead instrument for 8 measures, then add piano for 8 measures, then take them away slowly and end the song. Simple, stupid, cliche but maybe it'll get you going.

Then go back and tweak the drums, add/remove drum hits. Get in a remix mood, hit resample on a track and really tweak around on your scenes, take chunks of that resampled audio and put it around the song for breaks.

I'll also just go into arrange view and draw in the parts knowing I want to fill 100 measures, then draw in other parts just to it looks like the song is full, straight 8 measures, boring but it gets you going on a foundation.

Listen to songs on the radio, how they're made, verse chorus verse break chorus verse outro, all 8 or 16 measures long, pretty boring from an analysis point of view but we're used to it.

my $0.02.

silverlulu · Post by **silverlulu** » Sat May 19, 2007 4:57 am

legend. just what i need to start with. awesome. thanks loads. i really appreciate the easy to understand bare bones way you have explained it.

i'm very grateful for your help. thanks again.

silverlulu · Post by **silverlulu** » Sat May 19, 2007 6:05 am

does anyone else have any tips on how to form a basic track as well please? i would be grateful for any help

nowtime · Post by **nowtime** » Sat May 19, 2007 7:06 am

The concept of call and answer is an important part of musical movement. The call can be as little as 2 beats followed by a 2 beat answer ("everybody say hey!" "hey" everbody say...). The call and answer could be 1 bar each like a reggae-dub bassline over a 2 chord vamp (duh duh-duh duh-duh-duh / duh duh duh duh). the call could be a rising melody over 4 bars followed by an answer of 4 bars where the melody drops off while the arrangement gets more sparse (instruments dropping off). Call and answer has roots in drumming , especially African, where you can be trading off drum solos every 2 bars with question and answer type phrasings that resemble speech. Miles Davis used it with his bands, where he would play a phrase for a few bars, and the guitarist would answer with the same notes, or slight alterations, or some completely different "answer". When you're listening to music, try to notice the 1-bar call, 1-bar answer patterns, and the bigger 4-bar and even 8-bar patterns. The answer part of the pattern often has more space, or rests in it's inherent rhythym, with the call pattern being busier.

For basslines, unless you're programming, try playing the bass notes like a drum, a 2 or 3 note drum riff/meoldy, using a 1 bar call and answer.

hope this is helpful.

Winterpark · Post by **Winterpark** » Sat May 19, 2007 7:13 am

i would recommend reading up a little on music theory.... just chord structure and things like that. That will help with working out what bass notes go with what chords.

but to start with, why not just use all black notes on the keyboard? you can't really go wrong if all your chords and basslines use these same notes.

in terms of structure/arrangement... listen to one of your favorite tracks, and have a pen and paper and paper handy... count and write down how many bars (that is counts of 4) are in the intro, how many are in the verse, and chorus... then copy that structure for your own track.

even better yet... find the tempo of the track, import it into live, and use it as a reference for your own track.... follow the different sections.

hope that makes sense and helps.

:)M

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Sat May 19, 2007 8:57 am

Don't stay frustrated too long, be curious. try things that may sound stupid. Change between songs a lot. Don't flog a song for days. Step off and start another. Learn your sound sets and go to folders. Be curious and hit all the buttons. Make sound that you like and not just all day. Get laid and eat right, the misic will show itself.

Ahem, ok this post I was a litte f'd up. Hadn't slept for days then too many ambiens.

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Sat May 19, 2007 9:00 am

Here's a tip from the "don't do it like eyeknow" super-recording-how-to-extravaganza......

do and DON'T think.....! Get stuff down and don't obsess....you can fix it later.....it's the digital age

mercyplease · Post by **mercyplease** » Sat May 19, 2007 1:43 pm

The first fundamental you need to write a tune is called
Talent
you can make music without it but its crapness will easily shine through if your void of talent. You see I dont believe everyone can do what they want. I am not a liberal leftists so I do genuinely believe that either you have it or you dont.
talent is a requirement or you can attempt to pass your self off as avant garde experimental. Many have and make a good living from lack of actual musical talent but obviously have a talent for fakery.

silverlulu · Post by **silverlulu** » Sat May 19, 2007 4:54 pm

thanx for the replys. i still don't really understand what i'm supposed to be doing next with my tunes but i appreciate everyone chiming in with their help.

what i have done so far with the beat and the melody is really good. i know i have the talent for making a great sound but because i don't know how to structure music i don't know what to do with bass or if i need another instrument to compliment the piano etc...

i guess in this case it's hard for anyone to help with this through text, you'd probably have to hear what i've got and then you would be able to advise further. sorry but i'm really depressed by this all.

thanks though

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Sat May 19, 2007 4:59 pm

there are some pretty nice tips in this article:

http://www.tweakheadz.com/hip_hop_beat_construction.htm

.lm.

knotkranky · Post by **knotkranky** » Sat May 19, 2007 6:07 pm

silverlulu wrote:thanx for the replys. i still don't really understand what i'm supposed to be doing next with my tunes but i appreciate everyone chiming in with their help.

what i have done so far with the beat and the melody is really good. i know i have the talent for making a great sound but because i don't know how to structure music i don't know what to do with bass or if i need another instrument to compliment the piano etc...

i guess in this case it's hard for anyone to help with this through text, you'd probably have to hear what i've got and then you would be able to advise further. sorry but i'm really depressed by this all.

thanks though

Do a "save as" name it "crazy idea"

In arrange view, copy a section across all tracks or a group of music tracks and paste, insert, drop out a bar or two like an dyslexic caveman all over the place and listen to the happy accidents.

or/or both;

In session view, trigger scenes and clips like a baby on acid and edit from there.

You did a "save as" so who cares. If you don't like anything of the edits or jam experiments you have the session file you started with to go back to.

Hit the buttons, jam. Go ahead and break the program if you can. I promise you inspiration will show itself.

Live was made for happy accidents and tweakheads. Get out of tweakhead microland and stay in happy accidents for a while. It works.

Do not focus on the end result and simply take any random step forward. Trust it.

Making music is the ability to sift through your own garbage.

Daim · Post by **Daim** » Sat May 19, 2007 6:38 pm

interesting thread.. i'm often having a hard time in arranging as well

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Sat May 19, 2007 6:51 pm

Listen to lots of music you'd like to make

really that's about the best advise I can give...break down and try to re create it

work at it work at it and work at it somemore

it'll come

silverlulu · Post by **silverlulu** » Sat May 19, 2007 7:20 pm

thanks adonis you have brought a smile to my face again haha

i love your concept of happy accidents. i've been a tweak head recently and its hasn't got me very far, i was up till 11 this morning and got nowhere. i'm driving me nuts but i'm pushing through the pain because i want it badly enough.

cheers for the inspiration. i want to make music like massive attack, only thing i'm getting close to is panic attacks.