HARDWARE RIG WITCH REALLY WORK??? ableton live+guitar

anto · Post by **anto** » Sat May 19, 2007 6:02 pm

I've got a toshiba satellite a100, it seems impossible to use
- xp lited (nlite program)
- edirol fa66
- asio4all drivers
- os settings optimized for audio

i've a big use of cpu from hardware interrupts and deferred procedure calls (about 10-12%)
i've tried to use the guitar (ableton live+guitar rig), the comuper says less than 4ms of latency, but there's too much latency to play.
this laptop is probaly a shit, but could somone tell me if is really possible to play with ablton+guitar rig???
could someone tell me a laptop wich is really good for this???
maybe the problem came from thei shitty laptop.
it seems impossible, the program shows a low latency, but i experience an huge delay.
I SEE A LOT OF GUYS SPEND A LOT OF TIME WITH HARDWARE SET UP, COULD SOMEONE PUT A GOOD GUIDE WITH THE LAPTOPS WITCH WORKS GOOD?
I'M TIRED, WEEKS WITHOUT PLAYING, ONLY TRY TO LET THIS SHIT PLAY IN SYNC, BUT IT SEEMS IMPOSSIBLE

IN CONCLUSION, IS POSSIBLE TO PALY GUITAR WITH LIVE IN REAL REAL TIME?
WHAT SHOULD BE AT THIS MOMENT SOME COMPLETE HARDWARE (+SOFTWARE AND SETTINGS) RIG WITCH REALLY WORKS IN A GOOD WAY, TO PLAY IN REAL TIME?
I THINK IT COULD BE NICE TO HAVE A LIBRARY TOPIC WITH THIS

iain.morland · Post by **iain.morland** » Sat May 19, 2007 7:16 pm

You should be able to do 'direct monitoring' via your sound card (though I don't know your specifically - mine for example is an M-Audio FW Solo) and therefore monitor and record with no delay.

However if you want to put effects on the input through Guitar Rig (by routing an effected input track to another track), you'll unfortunately inevitably get latency to the value of your asio buffer plus any additional delay created by Guitar Rig.

anto · Post by **anto** » Sat May 19, 2007 9:33 pm

thanks for the answer, i don't know if direct monitoring is better than asio, but in my case (edirol fa-66) direct monitoring can't go under about 20ms of latency. totally unusable.

BUT THE POINT IS THIS: I EXPERIENCE TOO DELAY ALSO WITH ULTRA LOW LATENCY SETTINGS (3 MS IN+OUT LATENCY).
IT SEEMS TO BE AN HARDWARE PROBLEM, i start to think the problem came from my laptop. with my previous two laptops i don't remember this delay. probably this satellita a100 is not able to do music.

ThetaState · Post by **ThetaState** » Sat May 19, 2007 11:28 pm

I record Guitar Rig 2 with Live. I set the buffer size on my Ultralite to 384 and get 8ms of latency.

You may have your latency set too low. Try raising the buffer size. I find 8ms to be good for playing guitar. 11ms is slightly disorienting but it works in a pinch.

Also, ditch those ASIO4ALL drivers and get the Edirol ASIO drivers. Drivers written specifically for a piece of hardware are almost always going to run better than a generic driver.

anto · Post by **anto** » Sun May 20, 2007 7:03 am

thanks, but asio4all seems better then original drivers, or about as shitty as the original drivers

some other points:
when i play rg2 alone the latency is acceptable, but i do not think is 1ms, as declared from sound card program
when i play gr2 and al togheter there's an huge latency,.
the point is: I FIND THE DECLARED LATENCY LESS THAN THE REAL LATENCY.

MY DOUBT IS THIS: PROBABLY THE PROBLEM CAME FROM MY LAPTOP.

I spent a lot of weeks to set up this piece of crap, but without any results. i'm frustrated, i can't spend my time to set this damn pc.
i've intall and install, again and again the os about 20 times in 4 weeks, tried standard pc, acpi, mps, every time set up all
oh my god!

128 SAMPLES
INPUT LATENCY 2.90 MSEC
OUTPUT LATENCY 2.90 MSEC
OVERALL LATENCY 5.80 MSEC
RESULTS?
IMPOSSIBLE TO PLAY IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MAYBE DECLARED LATENCY IS LESS THAN REAL LATENCY?
MAYBE THE PROBLEM CAME ONLY FROM THE LAP???

is crazy to try as a blind man, i can't cHange a lap only to try, I THINK ABLETON SITE SHOULD PUT A GUIDE ABOUT REALLY WORKING LAPTOPS AND HARDWARE RIGS. NOT AOLY AS FORUM, BUT AS A FACTORY QUALITY MONITORING PROCEDURE.

MAYBE ABLETON COULD START A PARTNERSHIP WITH SOME HARDWARE PRODUCTSORS, AND GIVE TO THE CUSTOMERS A SORT OF LABEL WICH ENSURE THE LAP WORKS GOOD WITH ABLETON (A "RECOMMENDED FOR LIVE" LOGO),
IT COULD BE GOOD TO HAVE SOME STANDARD TRICKS TO LITE TH OS SYSTEMS

COME ON BOY! THE FORUM IS FULL DUE TO DESPERATE GUYS AS ME, WITH A LOT OF PROBLEM TO START LIVE.
WHAT THEY DO???
TRY THIS...NO GOOD, TRY THIS OTHER PIECE OF GEAR, NO GOOD....HOW MUCJ TIME LOST?????????????

WHEN I WAS PLAYIN GUITAR I'D SWITCH ON AN AMP, PLUG THE GUITAR AND PLAY IT!!! NOW I'M INTO A NASA PROJECT!?!?!

SOMEONE THINK THE ONLY WAY TO SAVE YOUR TIME IS TO GET A MAC,
OTHERWISE THERE ARE A LOT OF LAPTOPS, AND I'M AS A BLIND MAN, WHAT LAP TO BUY?
MY SATELLITE A100 SEEMS A SHIT, COULD SOMEONE TELL ME A A LAPTOP WICH REALLY DO THE JOB FOR EUROS 1500?
SOMEONE THINK HP LAPTOPS ARE THE BEST, IS THIS TRUE?

iain.morland · Post by **iain.morland** » Sun May 20, 2007 10:43 am

I feel your paint but please, it's hard to read what you're saying when so much of it is in capitals.

Have you tried the 'setting up latency compensation' (or whatever it's called) lesson in Live? That should allow Live to adjust for any difference between the reported and actual latency, whether coming from the soundcard or the laptop.

And incidentally the "direct monitoring" (if such a facility IS offered by your sound card) really should be completely direct, bypassing any processing/delay at all. Are you sure you've configured that correctly?

Finally, Pro Tools is the way to go if you want a certified hardware/software solution.

anto · Post by **anto** » Sun May 20, 2007 7:50 pm

yes, excuse me for the capitals, it was not to kill netiquette, but to put in evidence some things, and excuse me more for my english....ok, sometimes also to kill netiquette!!!!!!!!!!but i'm very tired, hey, i think as a lot of you I play after my work, and have only a bit of time to do it.
do you experience Ableton setting frustrations??? I do a lot, my Ableton at this moments is Ableton Death!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok thanks again for your answer, the point:
probably i fault about "direct monitoring", i trued my fa66 with mme directx, i don't know is is the same, but there was letency. probably this card doesnt offer that feature

i saw lessons but didnt help

pro tools? i've no time to try another software, my job, my wife...oh boy!!!...user friendly!?!? do you know what I mean, what i'd wish!?!?...oh maybe

maybe i'm a dummy!?!? but not too much
moreove i like a lot ableton, but there's too mucch trouble to came at a usable point,

iain.morland · Post by **iain.morland** » Sun May 20, 2007 8:33 pm

No worries about the netiquette.

Direct monitoring isn't anything to do with DirectX - or with any sound driver. It just sends the sound card's audio input to its output; it doesn't go through the computer at all. Check to see if it has a different name for your brand of sound card. It should be accessible through the card's control panel. You might get more luck asking on the manufacturer's forum.

As for the lessons, have you actually followed the one about latency compensation? This is key to successfully recording audio, although it won't remove latency when monitoring via software. It involves manually routing the sound card's input to its output, and is well worth doing. Otherwise the timing of a recording can be inaccurate.

Good luck!

ovalf · Post by **ovalf** » Sun May 20, 2007 9:10 pm

The problem inst the notebook, and the delay is more a problem of the audioware.
4 ms is a very slow delay but whem you get this with your edirol the sistem can be a lot more instable.
A recoird most in Nuendo with Guitar Rig, amplitube and some hardware. I play with Live playbacks, fx for guitat and vocal and some keyboard parts.
It works!
My only problem is with continuous contrllers for wah and volume pedal. Until now no one helps me.
Hugs!

anto · Post by **anto** » Mon May 21, 2007 9:32 am

iain.morland wrote:No worries about the netiquette.

Direct monitoring isn't anything to do with DirectX - or with any sound driver. It just sends the sound card's audio input to its output; it doesn't go through the computer at all. Check to see if it has a different name for your brand of sound card. It should be accessible through the card's control panel. You might get more luck asking on the manufacturer's forum.

As for the lessons, have you actually followed the one about latency compensation? This is key to successfully recording audio, although it won't remove latency when monitoring via software. It involves manually routing the sound card's input to its output, and is well worth doing. Otherwise the timing of a recording can be inaccurate.

Good luck!

probably i misunderstood this point,
yes, the fa66 has the direct monitoring, but is not possible to use it if you want to play with guitar rig, true?

anto · Post by **anto** » Mon May 21, 2007 9:38 am

ovalf wrote:The problem inst the notebook, and the delay is more a problem of the audioware.
4 ms is a very slow delay but whem you get this with your edirol the sistem can be a lot more instable.
A recoird most in Nuendo with Guitar Rig, amplitube and some hardware. I play with Live playbacks, fx for guitat and vocal and some keyboard parts.
It works!
My only problem is with continuous contrllers for wah and volume pedal. Until now no one helps me.
Hugs!

i don't know, but probably some laptops are less music-software friendly than some others!?!
if you're looking for hardware digitasl music grear i think you're into this possibilities:
- you're a pro
- you're into a local music community with a good knowledge of hardware
- you must be luck
- you must be patient

in my opinion there's a misundersstood about the frustration of the medium-users, are you happy to spend your time to try gear?

ovalf · Post by **ovalf** » Mon May 21, 2007 12:14 pm

anto wrote:
ovalf wrote: in my opinion there's a misundersstood about the frustration of the medium-users, are you happy to spend your time to try gear?

Really unhappy!
The possibilities of the hard/software are amazing but no one tells you about the incopatibilities. The people of the hardware blame the sof, other piece of harware ot another soft and vice versa. You have to by a system to see/try if it works...
I spend a lot of time in foruns and with the support and I can say that is part of the job BUT I think that the products cant be on the market if they require specifications that dont are in the manual!
We are been cheated. Sometime we think that buying something new will solve our problems, its not exctly the true, maybe its just another way to play a more sofisticated puzzle...
The only peaple happy are the low-users because:
1) it workss
2) if dont works they accept to blame themselves
Believe: many "pros" works like a low users.
Its a shame!

anto · Post by **anto** » Mon May 21, 2007 3:53 pm

yes, hardware productors says the problem came from software, and viceversa.
try to quantize the time passed on the forums to search for a solution....really too much, the life is too short to spend if on this shit!!!!!

I THINK SHOULD BE FANTASTIC IF SOFTWARE PRODUCTORS MAKE A DATA BASE WITH COMPLETE HARDWARE SOLUTION WITCH WORKS (AFTER A REAL TEST)
this thing could came only from software productors: the software determine the working format on the hardware (is a cyber law, here there's no space to explain, but belive me)

for example Ableton could put on his site a database with the combination of a small number of laptops and audio cards, maybe for 3 levels of cost. it could possible also to ask a sponsor partnership with productors, i.e. HP, Toshiba, Edirol, Motu....)
THE SOFTWARE FACTORIES SHOULD DO TESTS TO LET THE FINAL USER WORK AS PROMISED!!!!
IS TOO DIFFICULT TO FIND AN OPTIMUM SET UP!!!!
it could be good also to have a section to optimize the os (hey, there's nothing about hare...again, rambling from furum to forum to search....ohhhh boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

ovalf · Post by **ovalf** » Mon May 21, 2007 4:33 pm

At nuendo's site they put 3 levels of cost for hardware (I use one of the onfigurations), but only the computer, the audio card and midi its still a pain to configure (if you configure..)
I think that a lot of people blame themselves and the owners of the audio companies should be thankfull
I have no choice, have to reconfigure... and dream with a stable set!

iain.morland · Post by **iain.morland** » Mon May 21, 2007 5:39 pm

yes, the fa66 has the direct monitoring, but is not possible to use it if you want to play with guitar rig, true?

Yes, exactly right.

The answer is an old fashioned hardware FX pedal, I'm afraid!