Latency driving me Insane

frequin · Post by **frequin** » Tue May 22, 2007 10:19 am

Ok I’ve asked many people before the best way to combat the issues of latency in ableton and I’m still having trouble.

To start I have a brand new Sony vaio running live 6, 2.16GHz Duo core processor, 2Gb Ram, And built in SigamTel audio card (with an annoying built in mic that you can’t seem to disable just turn down!) And I am using an M-Audio Axiom 25 Controller running threw USB.

I just can’t get the midi controller or even the computer keyboard reactive enough to fluently play out choons on synths or trigger a dj set, I can get very close but still there is a slight delay and enough to make it difficult and cause slight mistakes, I’ve played with the audio setting adjusting the buffer size and driver error compensation endlessly with no success (I have been able to better the latency but not enough)

I’ve tried running ASIO4ALL and I’ve also tried using my edirol ua-4fx sound card (rubbish)

Again all with the same result, You can hear the key on the midi controller bottom out before you here any sound from live!

Can anyone recommend any advice or tutorials on better ways to configure live/ my equipment to minimize latency?

Thanks!

snowtires · Post by **snowtires** » Tue May 22, 2007 1:26 pm

i'm sure the budget audiocard with unadjustable microphone isn't helping. try a firewire interface and see if that helps.

pribeh_tom · Post by **pribeh_tom** » Wed May 23, 2007 12:16 am

What OPERATING SYSTEM?

and from where are you adjusting your buffer/latency settings?

what buffer sizes have you tried?

frequin · Post by **frequin** » Wed May 23, 2007 12:44 am

Im running XP, I'm adjusting the buffer/latency settings in live though Options-> Prefrences -> Audio

I've tried brining the buffer size down to 592samples before it brakes up, even at 256 samples it still has a delay and the output latency reads 5.80ms, Driver error compensation seems to make no difference!

Would I be right in saying that the delay is not cause by the midi controller or the signal traveling threw usb to the pc, but the audio output getting from the pc to the sound card (built in or external?)

pribeh_tom · Post by **pribeh_tom** » Wed May 23, 2007 1:13 am

5ms is really low. The lowest I've ever achieved is 4ms.

You shouldn't be hearing any delay with 5ms delay on the output with your keyboard - which is the measured time it will take to get to the output from the input. And 256 should add up to around a 10ms delay - especially if you're using a usb interface.

That the sound is breaking up around 592, I'd check to see if you're hard disk light (in the top right corner) comes on whenever you hear glitches in your audio, or whenever.

I would say that you're interface is likely the culprit. But if that hard disk light comes on then you might want to try using an external hard drive for your samples - most media professionals use an external drive for their files, it speeds up read times greatly.

I often use my x-station as an interface while performing with live, but I use monitor while inputting a signal. The axiom is not known for having a low audio latency. I'd check with M-Audio for some troubleshooting. I'd like to add that XP doesn't handle audio buffers that well.

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Wed May 23, 2007 1:14 am

Your laptop specs should be capable of doing better with latency, defintely the sigmatel is a weak link, try and disable it in BIOS.

Firewire is not always a good choice on PCs because there are so many firewire chipsets and only some of them work well for audio (look in your device manager and see who makes the iee 1934 a.k.a. firewire interface), texas instruments firewire chipsets tend to be pretty good, others less so. Also, win xp sp2 broke firewire, there is a patch available from microsoft that fixes this issue.

I would recommend getting a cardbus interface or try something like the EMU 0404 USB which has had good reviews.

And yes, latency on MIDI is also caused by the USB>MIDI interface. Therefore an audio interface with built in MIDI often helps here, especially one on cardbus.

btw, I can run Live comfortably on 128 buffers for most apps, and definately 256 and the latency is totally negligible, even at 512 buffers I can handle it for anything except the most demanding fast phrases for MIDI. Although on guitar, I like to use no more than 256 and often use direct monitoring. Reason 2.5 can run at 64 buffers if it's less than 10 tracks on my PC which is less powerful than yours.

Have you tried updating the edirol's drivers? ASIO4ALL is not always helpful and you should only use it if you have a non ASIO compliant card or if the drivers from your card maker truly suck ball$. I tried ASIO4ALL on my echo indigo IO and the latency is more than 2 times worse with asio4all compared to the latest echo drivers.

leedsquietman · Post by **leedsquietman** » Wed May 23, 2007 1:19 am

Also do all the optimizing, such as scheduling processor for background tasks rather than performance, closing any programs or services which are unnecessary. switching how windows looks with all the fades and cool shadings etc to the most rudimentary, not the default 'let windows choose', turn off your wireless adapter (this often helps a lot), definately turn off anti-virus/spyware and web browsers, if you're running XP you should aim to get your processes down to 27-32 processes only, new laptops are bundled with a lot of crap which often loads on boot *use msconfig.exe to stop this occurring but use with caution! *, my wife's vista laptop came with over 70 running processes thanks to all the clutter and junk. Vista has more processes running than XP but you can easily lose 25-30 of those processes for better performance.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Wed May 23, 2007 2:13 am

Do this, especially setting Processor Scheduling to "Background Services":

http://tarekith.com/assets/XPTweaks.htm

Definitely time for a real soundcard, in the mean time, try DLing the ASIO4ALL drivers amd using those.

firewire · Post by **firewire** » Wed May 30, 2007 11:10 am

Hi,
You might be having the same trouble i am.

Try this...

with a track loaded and playing turn Delay Compensation on. Switch on the metronome, it should now be in time with the music. turn delay compensation off, now you might hear an audible delay. turn delay compensation on again and turn the metronome off.

now arm a midi track for recording with an instument. with monitoring set to auto, tap a key in time to the music, if my guess is right there is a delay in sound and recording.
Now turn the monitoring to OFF (so you can't hear the instrument play), tap a different key in time with the beat.
Did it record on the note ????

Amaury · Post by **Amaury** » Thu May 31, 2007 1:45 pm

firewire wrote:Hi,
You might be having the same trouble i am.

Try this...

with a track loaded and playing turn Delay Compensation on. Switch on the metronome, it should now be in time with the music. turn delay compensation off, now you might hear an audible delay. turn delay compensation on again and turn the metronome off.

now arm a midi track for recording with an instument. with monitoring set to auto, tap a key in time to the music, if my guess is right there is a delay in sound and recording.
Now turn the monitoring to OFF (so you can't hear the instrument play), tap a different key in time with the beat.
Did it record on the note ????

Hi,

I don't really get it: in both cases, it records the note. In case you monitor, you are meant to play hearing a sound, so the note is recorded 'where you hear the sound'. Is monitoring is OFF, you don't hear any sound when you press the key, so the note is recorded 'where you play it'. Does it make sense to you?

Regards,
Amaury

firewire · Post by **firewire** » Thu May 31, 2007 11:36 pm

Hi Amaury,
we seem to be talking across two different posts.

My point is that the midi note should be recorded exactly in the same place and time as the audio which is reaching the players ears. Currently it does not if a track is fairly complex and the cpu is loaded. Surely Ableton must realise this by now.

This topic has been thrashed by Chris J in other posts. I had not read those when i posted an answer to this thread.

my original post is http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=65508
Cheers
firewire