Ableton lost another potential customer

solo-act · Post by **solo-act** » Mon May 28, 2007 6:01 pm

In a nutshell, no industry standard midi implementation.......thats it, no need to read further. What the hell is a product that is designed for live performance doing without standard midi implementation?

I need to automate outboard gear so i can focus on LIVE PERFORMANCE instead of stomping on midi footswitches so all patch changes can happen on outboard gear during songs......I'm talking at least 2 per song for vocals and at least three per song for guitar. And that's not including everything that needs to automated for lights.

What a joke. I really liked everything I saw about live in terms of interface, processor efficiency and more, but when I did a search for the words "program change" -- one of the most basic units of midi automation -- and saw it only appeared in the manual THREE TIMES I knew something was wrong.

So long story short, Live is actually very handicapped when it comes to automating gear for a live performance thanks to a very handicapped implementation of midi.....sorry, one patch change per midi clip and only at the beginning of clip aint gonna cut it....and that fact that it doesn't import patch changes or import anything beyond midi notes and velocities.....well that pretty much speaks for itself. Really want to like it, but until Ableton adds industry standard midi implementation.....I'm out.

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Mon May 28, 2007 6:08 pm

A joke? I don't think it's Live that's handicapped!

You obviously haven't taken the time to understand virtual MIDI buses, dummy clips, Follow Actions, Live clips, MIDI effects, and scores of other MIDI features that makes Live a revolution in live performance and set new standards far beyond the MIDI implementation of any other live performance software package.

I do quadraphonic DJing, live percussion, VJing, and run 29 separate DMX lighting fixtures and two pan/tilt/zoom video cameras, all sequenced and performed single-handedly with Live.

Sometimes you gotta think outside the box. It's not always handed to you on a plate.

And as for you being 'out', I don't think it's really gonna cause us any grief!

P.S. Do as many program changes as often as you want, and not just at the beginning of a MIDI clip, either.

Patch · Post by **Patch** » Mon May 28, 2007 6:21 pm

Sounds like somebody isn't willing to learn new techniques.

If you think Live can't handle FIVE prog. changes (3 for vocals/2 for guitars) you'd be blown away by the midi juggling some of us are doing using dummy clips and midiyoke/IAC.

solovox · Post by **solovox** » Mon May 28, 2007 6:28 pm

Exactly.

Solo-Act...I really hope no one gets you and I confused if this is an example of your posts!

"Better to remain silent and thought a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt." --Abraham Lincoln

Pantytec · Post by **Pantytec** » Mon May 28, 2007 6:34 pm

solo-act............, somebody needs a huuuug!

ethios4 · Post by **ethios4** » Mon May 28, 2007 7:11 pm

hambone1 wrote:I do quadraphonic DJing, live percussion, VJing, and run 29 separate DMX lighting fixtures and two pan/tilt/zoom video cameras, all sequenced and performed single-handedly with Live.

lol...yep, that's traditional ole DJing for sure!

In defense of solo-act, there is no documentation support from Ableton about all the great techniques mentioned here. To learn those you either have to be very experimental on your own, or frequent one of the Ableton-related forums. I think Ableton does itself a disservice by not making this largely forum-generated info more accessible.

freqn · Post by **freqn** » Mon May 28, 2007 7:19 pm

You can't be serious. Suggestion, learn to use the software before you critique.

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Mon May 28, 2007 7:21 pm

ethios4 wrote:In defense of solo-act, there is no documentation support from Ableton about all the great techniques mentioned here.

That's probably the same for just about any form of software (and some hardware, too!) Most of the Photoshop, Arkaos VJ, Cinema 4D, etc I've learned hasn't been from the manuals, but from experimentation, forums, and 'thinking outside the box'. There are so many different tips, tricks, and techniques that I don't think the software manufacturers could document them all.

ethios4 wrote:I think Ableton does itself a disservice by not making this largely forum-generated info more accessible.

Everyone's free to use the forum!

Ragamuffin · Post by **Ragamuffin** » Mon May 28, 2007 7:35 pm

TASTY · Post by **TASTY** » Mon May 28, 2007 7:46 pm

solo-act wrote:In a nutshell, no industry standard midi implementation.......thats it, no need to read further. What the hell is a product that is designed for live performance doing without standard midi implementation?

I need to automate outboard gear so i can focus on LIVE PERFORMANCE instead of stomping on midi footswitches so all patch changes can happen on outboard gear during songs......I'm talking at least 2 per song for vocals and at least three per song for guitar. And that's not including everything that needs to automated for lights.

What a joke. I really liked everything I saw about live in terms of interface, processor efficiency and more, but when I did a search for the words "program change" -- one of the most basic units of midi automation -- and saw it only appeared in the manual THREE TIMES I knew something was wrong.

So long story short, Live is actually very handicapped when it comes to automating gear for a live performance thanks to a very handicapped implementation of midi.....sorry, one patch change per midi clip and only at the beginning of clip aint gonna cut it....and that fact that it doesn't import patch changes or import anything beyond midi notes and velocities.....well that pretty much speaks for itself. Really want to like it, but until Ableton adds industry standard midi implementation.....I'm out.

GIVE THE MAN A DUMMY

synnack · Post by **synnack** » Mon May 28, 2007 8:02 pm

Well. at least he didn't say "NO SIDECHAIN!?!?!?!"

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Mon May 28, 2007 8:15 pm

This is a case of using the wrong tool for the job.

If it's simply patch changes and more conventional MIDI handling you're after, Live probably ain't the right tool.

Sales Dude McBoob · Post by **Sales Dude McBoob** » Mon May 28, 2007 8:37 pm

solovox wrote:
"Better to remain silent and thought a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt." --Abraham Lincoln

Uh, I think that's a Mark Twain quote.

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Mon May 28, 2007 8:38 pm

That was Honest Abe. http://thinkexist.com/quotation/better_ ... 45479.html

I think it was Mark Twain who said "What? No sidechain?!"

ethios4 · Post by **ethios4** » Mon May 28, 2007 8:46 pm

edit : wrong thread

Ableton lost another potential customer

Ableton lost another potential customer

Re: Ableton lost another potential customer