THE RICH WHITE artists who ripped off blacks THREAD

[steve-o]

how are you folks defining 'rip off' ?

my definition is a little less vague.

if timbaland made an original sid-chip song, I wouldnt say he ripped anyone off.

but, timbaland copied exactly large phrases of a song - and passed it off as his own without apology, thats what I call ripping someone off.


style...thats not so clear & easy to call ripping off, imo. I suppose anything driven by bass & rhythm is a black thing and if you use it in your music you're ripping a black man off ?

what black man ?

huh ?!

This one isn't quite ready for defactaion - some strains of nutrients remain in this nugget.

[b0unce]

pah!
merely taking adonis' hot potatoe, and putting it on a plate with some butter and a dash of pepper.

Besides, I want to see if there's something valid to his comments. First, the whiteman has been ripping off the black man since the dawn of music...then its in the last 100 years.

Regarding the dawn of music bit, I wont make any assumptions ? Dunno...fill me in on what the fuck he's talking about, please, anyone.

Regarding the last 100 years bit, well...this could yield something worthwhile, and I genuinely want to know who he's referring to

Here is one pile of feces

explain

[rikhyray]

The most sensible statement I heard on subject of racisms and art came from a Black Puertorican from Henry Threadgill band. My band and theirs were together on tour for about a month. At our last dinner they talked about the subject that they were discussing a lot "what Rikhy has done". I thought that I have done some stupid shit but it was contrary, there was "a situation" in one of the hotels, involving their band member. I solved it, and forgot about it, but they didn't.
I never though it could be such an issue., but for them it was "a white man helping black man" (though I have 3 or more races in my blood I look white) which was not something they were used to.
Then one of the musicians said to a journalist " You see Rikhy is not a racist, he is an artist, he has no time to be a racist"
Any racial, religious or nationalistic prejudice is just ignorance. We should do our thing the best we we can, with free independent mind and open heart, otherwise we become our own and everyone else's worst enemy.
Nobody owns anything, any art in particular. We got to make living somehow but if we loose the awareness that what we create is our gift to other people then we loose everything as artists. Neither any individual, neither social group or race can own any art form.

[b0unce]

how are you folks defining 'rip off' ?

my definition is a little less vague.

if timbaland made an original sid-chip song, I wouldnt say he ripped anyone off.

but, timbaland copied exactly large phrases of a song - and passed it off as his own without apology, thats what I call ripping someone off.


style...thats not so clear & easy to call ripping off, imo. I suppose anything driven by bass & rhythm is a black thing and if you use it in your music you're ripping a black man off ?

what black man ?

huh ?!

This one isn't quite ready for defactaion - some strains of nutrients remain in this nugget.

explain

[jamester]

he's saying.. do you know how many people love eminem, atmosphere, anticon and defjux (not can-o/mr.lif) to death but don't like any black rappers at all?...... the answer is far too many for that kind of math to add up.

I say that's complete and utter bullshit.

ANYBODY who is into hip-hop knows the artists associated with it, and really that sentiment goes for any genre.

Now, if we're talking about 12-year old girls who might love Eminem but not know who Soul Sonic Foce is, I'd have to say yeah but what's the fucking point? That's life. Shit I teach guitar for a living, and I see the same thing with tennage boys who love Wolfmother but only know Zeppelin for Stairway To Heaven!

Either way the point is moot on a site like this, which is predominantly full of artists who take their music seriously and understand all of this already.

[stale bread]

As it's been said "good artsists copy, great artists steal."
African American music is 98.6% funkier than European/Asian music, obviously more sampled.
The only thing wrong with stealing music is getting caught, being a dumbass like Vanilla Ice who's famous for ripping of a couple of Brits.

What about De La Soul ripping off The Turtles?!?!?!?!

thats what i mean by 'detractors' (not you tonedeft) but people arent' talking about anyone owning art, music, or anything like that. that is obsurd
what the discussion is really about is black artist making music and not getting credit, and pat boone covering their music and getting all the credit. even pat boone himself has admitted that things were this way and apologized for it. (takes a big man to do that) anyway it's this ethos and it's legacey that still prevails today in a different guise albeit but easily enough noticeable for those who aren't afraid to see.

cats should really read steve-o's post twice.

it's the miss-appropriation of acknowledgement, respect, and credit due that
is the issue, it's not about who owns what.... that's fuckin stupid cause nobody owns shit. but white people have not faced the miss appropriation of acknowledgement that black people have and alot of folks just like in this thread try to act like this does not exist. they are detractors trying to fake you out by clouding the issues and make you think the issue is whether blacks or whites own hiphop........ don't be foooled.

[smutek]

The idea that blacks invented something SCARES the shit out of white people. Why? It negates the idea that we are inferior and whats more terrifying than that to white people.

Stop being so general, you make yourself look like a racist. All white people don't think this way, and a lot of white people have no problem with giving credit where credit is due, regardless of race.

When was the last time you heard blacks given credit for house, techno etc.

Let's see - just yesterday in two separate documentaries I watched about the history of techno. Not that I didn't know this already, but I'll watch and re-watch anything that has to do with techno.

In-fact, pretty much any techno head, be they black white yellow gold or brown will tell you that the movement was started by blacks.

I do concede that outside of EDM heads it's pretty much considered "white music", even by blacks - at-least in America. A guy I used to work with used to joke me about that "white boy shit" I would listen to all the time. I had to actually explain to him that it started with three black guys from Detroit. Four if you count Eddie Fowlkes.

For example I was reading a magazine the other day that said Phil Spector invented Dub Music.

Actually I do. I had a girl in one of my classes a couple of years back that told me Dub started with Sublime. I didn't even bother to respond.

Hip Hip is not the worlds music. Its black music period. This is how this shit gets started. Blacks cant claim Indian music as their own so how the hell Hip Hop is now the worlds music.

No it's not, hip-hop is no longer "black music" any more than techno, house, blues or jazz are. All of them started as black music, and I agree 100% that the utmost props and credit needs to go to the pioneers, but it is the worlds music now.

Blacks can't claim to have invented indian music, no, but they can certainly take the sound, develop it, and contribute to it.

Maybe we disagree on semantics. I don't know. But if you insist on calling any of this "black music" then I will be the first to tell you I love black music. But I like to think of it as universal music, a positive potentially unifying force. Pioneered by blacks certainly, and eventually adopted and contributed to by people all over the world. And I don't believe that is taking anything away from the culture or race that originated the particular sound, because I will be the first to tell anyone where the music came from.

Not to mention blacks are still the most hated people on the planet, wherever we go we are despised and hated.. GIVE me a break.

I think you are exaggerating a bit. But, I do feel that a lot of people, white people especially, forget that black slavery isn't exactly ancient history, that the civil rights movement in America, Klan lynchings, open segregation etc. were a fact of life just 50 years ago, and that racism is still flourishing in America. Personally I don't think anyone has been dealt a worse card than the palestinians - not in todays world. But that's another thread.

I'm sure you know this, but whites aren't the only ones guilty of racism. I learned that first hand as a heroin addict living in the ghettos of Baltimore's east side for 5 years, and in Baltimore's city jail.

Having grown up as one of the few (for lack of better terms) "open minded liberal" white people in an all white extremely racist neighborhood, it actually came as quite a shock to me to learn that a lot of black people hated me for no other reason than because I was white, regardless of my morals or politics.

But I digress.

Let me ask you. I feel strongly that hip hop is the perfect vehicle for spreading political and social awareness to poor and oppressed people all over the world, regardless of race. The perfect vehicle to educate and effect change. In America, any artist with such a message will never get radio play.

We know all too well what kind of artists get radio play. the message being spread through (mainstream) hip-hop to the masses is bullshit, bitches sluts guns money ho's, complete garbage. A message of ignorance spoon fed to an ignorant audience. The audience is white, black, asian, hispanic, middle eastern, and so on, but I really think the greatest damage is being done to the black community, especially given the state of America's cities (at-least the one I live in).

Who's responsible for this tragedy? Does all of the blame go to the white elite that own the radio/television stations and record companies, or does it go to the black artists who are capitalizing on, perpetuating, and spreading this bullshit?

I'm not asking that question in a provocative manner, I am generally interested to hear what you think, and what the solution may be.

Personally I think the media executives are the more sinister of the two, but the artists need to be held to account as well. Hip-hop should be building communities, especially the black community, but the package sold to the main stream is doing the exact opposite. There's no message in mainstream hip-hop.

[stale bread]

he's saying.. do you know how many people love eminem, atmosphere, anticon and defjux (not can-o/mr.lif) to death but don't like any black rappers at all?...... the answer is far too many for that kind of math to add up.

I say that's complete and utter bullshit.

ANYBODY who is into hip-hop knows the artists associated with it, and really that sentiment goes for any genre.

Now, if we're talking about 12-year old girls who might love Eminem but not know who Soul Sonic Foce is, I'd have to say yeah but what's the fucking point? That's life. Shit I teach guitar for a living, and I see the same thing with tennage boys who love Wolfmother but only know Zeppelin for Stairway To Heaven!

Either way the point is moot on a site like this, which is predominantly full of artists who take their music seriously and understand all of this already.

sadly jamester there are alot more people with this view than just 12 yr old girls... seriously. I'm not making the argument that all white people who like or make hiphop are like this. please don't miss the point. as a matter of fact i'm in a band (hiphop) where i'm the only black person, the others are white and none of them are like that at all.

[b0unce]

people arent' talking about anyone owning art, music, or anything like that. that is obsurd
what the discussion is really about is black artist making music and not getting credit, and pat boone covering their music and getting all the credit. even pat boone himself has admitted that things were this way and apologized for it. (takes a big man to do that) anyway it's this ethos and it's legacey that still prevails today in a different guise albeit but easily enough noticeable for those who aren't afraid to see.

cats should really read steve-o's post twice.

it's the miss-appropriation of acknowledgement, respect, and credit due that
is the issue, it's not about who owns what.... that's fuckin stupid cause nobody owns shit. but white people have not faced the miss appropriation of acknowledgement that black people have and alot of folks just like in this thread try to act like this does not exist. they are detractors trying to fake you out by clouding the issues and make you think the issue is whether blacks or whites own hiphop........ don't be foooled.

.... no, heres what the thread is about. quite simple, from the timbaland discussion & page 1 of this thread

He's gone the way of the pop star as of late and pop sounds like pop - the difference between a Timberlake album and a Furtado album is very small

but I recently found out he did the Bjork album <----> I'm curious at hearing something like that to be honest...


ha, rich black producer steals from lesser known white artist

no one has brought up the fact whites have been stealing from black artist since the dawn of music...maybe it's cosmic karma?


and in more ways then one I can see why Timbaland is flat outsaying "f*** you" to the haters...

Let's all be honest for one minute. If you did something illegal, got caught for it, and found guilty, would you do still choose to do the time if for some technicality you were let off the hook?

and that is pretty much the point of what's happening here

if someone jacked Timbaland you can bet they'd get the (you know what) sued out of them

in this case it's the other way around and the poor fellas can't afford to do anything

I don't feel that bad for them really, its the game and they lost - boo hoo


the other thing - people are E-Yelling about what's fair and legal and what-not...but people are soon to forget their own "mis-givings" "white lies" "petty crimes" and "things no one will know about's" as if they themselves walk on the White road of purity


Timbaland isn't my most favorite producer (at all) <-- I do have respect for him though

and I really could give a shit if he jacked those guys - when we start having a discussion about ALL THE RICH WHITE artists / producers / sing song writers who've ripped off blacks for the past 100 or so years (and still have given them no credit) then I'll talk about Timbalands indiscretion

the bits in bold. This thread is the place to discuss the events & actions adonis is referring to, which to him justify plagiarising some finnish dude...cos of the colour of his skin. I've really not read anything compelling yet, nothing that even comes close to justifying it.

[eyeknow]

wow

[knotkranky]

Yeah, and what about women, who in the hell do they think they're fooling riding on the back of men's music?

[stale bread]

Let me ask you. I feel strongly that hip hop is the perfect vehicle for spreading political and social awareness to poor and oppressed people all over the world, regardless of race. The perfect vehicle to educate and effect change. In America, any artist with such a message will never get radio play.

We know all too well what kind of artists get radio play. the message being spread through (mainstream) hip-hop to the masses is bullshit, bitches sluts guns money ho's, complete garbage. A message of ignorance spoon fed to an ignorant audience. The audience is white, black, asian, hispanic, middle eastern, and so on, but I really think the greatest damage is being done to the black community, especially given the state of America's cities (at-least the one I live in).

Who's responsible for this tragedy? Does all of the blame go to the white elite that own the radio/television stations and record companies, or does it go to the black artists who are capitalizing on, perpetuating, and spreading this bullshit?

I'm not asking that question in a provocative manner, I am generally interested to hear what you think, and what the solution may be.

Personally I think the media executives are the more sinister of the two, but the artists need to be held to account as well. Hip-hop should be building communities, especially the black community, but the package sold to the main stream is doing the exact opposite. There's no message in mainstream hip-hop.

doesn't get more truthful than that

[Tone Deft]

What about right handed people ripping off the left handed?

[b0unce]

well put smutek, excellent point knotkranky

[knotkranky]

Let me ask you. I feel strongly that hip hop is the perfect vehicle for spreading political and social awareness to poor and oppressed people all over the world, regardless of race. The perfect vehicle to educate and effect change. In America, any artist with such a message will never get radio play.

We know all too well what kind of artists get radio play. the message being spread through (mainstream) hip-hop to the masses is bullshit, bitches sluts guns money ho's, complete garbage. A message of ignorance spoon fed to an ignorant audience. The audience is white, black, asian, hispanic, middle eastern, and so on, but I really think the greatest damage is being done to the black community, especially given the state of America's cities (at-least the one I live in).

Who's responsible for this tragedy? Does all of the blame go to the white elite that own the radio/television stations and record companies, or does it go to the black artists who are capitalizing on, perpetuating, and spreading this bullshit?

I'm not asking that question in a provocative manner, I am generally interested to hear what you think, and what the solution may be.

Personally I think the media executives are the more sinister of the two, but the artists need to be held to account as well. Hip-hop should be building communities, especially the black community, but the package sold to the main stream is doing the exact opposite. There's no message in mainstream hip-hop.

doesn't get more truthful than that

Smu, great post again.