Who wants access to Ableton's Python API? .. You? .. Ok!

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
elemental
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Post by elemental » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:42 pm

Man if I had the time I would dive straight into this... been looking at the uCapps site on and off for a couple of years or so. Never found the time to actually start building a controller. Done a few designs tho.

NOW that we have the possibility of proper communication with ableton, in terms of clip names, clip state, set state etc this opens up a whole new load of possibilities!

Imagine, a hardware version of the session view. How sick would that be??

Tone Deft wrote:FORGE-

www.ucapps.de
...is where you want to haunt. It might look huge up front but read about the projects, that seems to be the site where the DIY crowd gathers to help each other out. A lot of projects are completely laid out. Take advantage of student discounts on compilers, programmers and parts while you can.

LCDs, I've never done a project from the ground up, check uCapps for what people use and print out the spec sheet and just start reading. I like to print them 4 pages per side of 8x11 sheet to makes them quicker to read, less intimidating easier to get to info. Forge, feel free to e-mail me on any ideas. LCDs are static, they don't change until you tell them to, write a byte of what to display, another byte to tell it where.

Dunno about the Python step sequencer, my fingers wrote some post or another about that, they have some ideas. I think my summer will be spent on Monome 40h tweaks (RGB LEDs) I'm more of a hardware than a software geek. I'm thinking Python might replace MAX/MSP for the monome interface, Live 7 will guide that decision. Then at some time the Live 7 beta will start and bye bye free time.

Python voodoo... Sqook I'm looking at you!! There's quite a few software gurus around here.

A year from now the Live landscape will be completely different. Very interesting times for Ableton and its users.

buzzcock
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Post by buzzcock » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:51 pm

Angstrom wrote:ooh, ooh, I thought of a good one.
Setting the master BPM by the tempo of the first recorded loop.

How?
record the initial loop by stabbing at the track record button - that will give you a sample of weird length. Unrelated to the current master BPM most likely.

get the loop length attribute, work out what BPM that is. (I'm guessing the float is the length in seconds, ifso - not too hard.)

set the master BPM from the extrapolated clip BPM.




right, all I have to do is install it now!
;)

If you're saying what I think you're saying, it will turn my live-looping world on it's head! Let us know how it goes!
MBP C2D 2.33GHz---Metric Halo MIO 2882

3dot...
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Post by 3dot... » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:55 pm

... I always thought that live was built with the premise of future touchscreens...

... All live needs is a multitouch screen with OS support.... (and maybe the ability to place devices from diff. channels on the same page...)
(Which I think will be sooner than we think...)
....I felt tempted to press those play buttons on the session grid with my Greasy fingers Since Day 1 ...

FUTURISTIC!!!! :twisted:

rasputin
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Scary cool!

Post by rasputin » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:11 pm

...have been working with ChucK lately which is "concurrent, on-the-fly audio programming language for real-time synthesis, composition, and performance." (See http://chuck.cs.princeton.edu/)

Although it's also in a relatively early state (1.2.0.8) it is stable, has most of the important features implemented and DOES SUPPORT OSC!

I have just started learning python, but I hope to soon be able to communicate between ChucK and Live via OSC.

r.

(Cultural software nerd postscript: many years ago after I had just started working with some real software hotshots, I "casually" mentioned in conversation that I knew awk. They sort of smirked at me and basically said that THEY all used perl, which blew away awk. So I went off and worked hard to learn perl, and when I "casually" mentioned some time later that I had gotten pretty good at that, they all smirked again and said that python was now where it was at, which blew away perl....They were cool guys once you got to know them and their quirks, but if you looked up "software meganerd" in the dictionary, their pictures would be right there in the definition.)

axou
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Post by axou » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:19 pm

3dot... wrote:I felt tempted to press those play buttons on the session grid with my Greasy fingers Since Day 1 ...
quite masochistic, seeing how those are only 16*16 pixels. I'm convinced no interface can be fit for both mouse use AND finger use. If multitouch arrives at the OS level, an entirely reworked interface will need to be done to be effective for finger use.
Last edited by axou on Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rasputin
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When python...

Post by rasputin » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:20 pm

It dawned on me that people need to go get python and check out all its docs and tutorials

Hie yourself on over to http://www.python.org/ and get a free download of the latest release.

From that website:
The Python implementation is under an open source license that makes it freely usable and distributable, even for commercial use.
...and sure enough there is plenty of documentation including a thorough tutorial http://docs.python.org/tut/tut.html, so what are you waiting for?

LOFA
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Post by LOFA » Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:46 pm

I am so glad that this is going on. Thank you.

noisetonepause
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Re: Scary cool!

Post by noisetonepause » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:01 pm

rasputin wrote:(Cultural software nerd postscript: many years ago after I had just started working with some real software hotshots, I "casually" mentioned in conversation that I knew awk. They sort of smirked at me and basically said that THEY all used perl, which blew away awk. So I went off and worked hard to learn perl, and when I "casually" mentioned some time later that I had gotten pretty good at that, they all smirked again and said that python was now where it was at, which blew away perl....They were cool guys once you got to know them and their quirks, but if you looked up "software meganerd" in the dictionary, their pictures would be right there in the definition.)
They're all using Ruby now...
Suit #1: I mean, have you got any insight as to why a bright boy like this would jeopardize the lives of millions?
Suit #2: No, sir, he says he does this sort of thing for fun.

DrJay
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Post by DrJay » Fri Jun 08, 2007 5:34 pm

A few notes from my side, regarding the LCD question and DIY controllers in general.

Half a year ago I decided to build a controller like the MCU. I knew nothing about electronic circuits at all, but had some programming experience a couple of years. Spending approx. 200 hours of my spare time and 300-500 € my controller is almost finished. It's not perfect und has no fancy looks, but it works more or less as expected.

I mention the above to make the following points:
- Building a controller is no rocket science. Everybody could do it, if willing to learn.
- It takes a lot of time, if you want to understand what your doing.
- You won't save any money, taking into account the time spend and the more professional look of commercial controllers.

- BUT: But its a very rewarding experience. It's fun and the feeling using your own controller is great!

IMHO there are 3 ways of doing it:
1. www.ucapps.de: I never tried it, but I think its great. They did the hard work you. OS for the microchip is already coded, well layout schematics etc. Danger is, you don't think about it and don't learn much about microcontrollers and electronics.
2. www.arduino.cc: Readymade controller board with a few IOs and small IDE. Using this board, you can learn a lot about controller programming and electronics. Its using C language with a few high level functions. These functions save you from digging into the details of microcontrollers. Very nice concept and fun to use! I used this toolkit for my project.
3. Directly start with the development board from the microcontroller vendors. I would only recommend this approach for experienced programmer. Chances are good you loose interest in your project.

Regarding the LCDs: you'll find lots of libraries and code in the internet. Prices depend on colour and size. I paid about 20-30e for a green 2*40 character LCD.

Conclusion: It's fun and rewarding and highly recommended for anyone interested in programing and electronics!

Sorry for being 'slightly' OT and maybe a little verbose, but I had the impression by publishing the python API, the idea of a DIY controller gets some momentum.

franknputer
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Re: Scary cool!

Post by franknputer » Fri Jun 08, 2007 7:37 pm

noisetonepause wrote:
They're all using Ruby now...
DOH!! Beat me to it!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Nathan Ramella
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Re: Scary cool!

Post by Nathan Ramella » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:10 pm

franknputer wrote:
noisetonepause wrote:
They're all using Ruby now...
DOH!! Beat me to it!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Haha. Let me just say having been a Perl guy for about 15 years that Python is better than Perl and Ruby.. I skimmed the Ruby book over a couple days and it was horrifying. It was like all the most awful stuff from Perl with some of the good stuff from Python. But, that's just my opinion.

I'm thankful that Live API is Python.. Ruby would have probably been a deterent for me. Learning Python was actually fun. :D I'm a meganerd tho. :(

On a side note..

http://www.cycling74.com/forums/index.p ... eefe833cba

http://forum.jazzmutant.com/viewtopic.p ... dba496f0bd

http://forum.monome.org/topic/916

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2565154

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/for ... p=22621419

I'm pretty stoked. Getting a lot of great feedback from people.

Thanks for all the word-of-mouth you guys have been generating!!
remix.net - versus / liveapi / hangthedj / ammobox

Tone Deft
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Re: Scary cool!

Post by Tone Deft » Fri Jun 08, 2007 10:24 pm

Holy frijole, MAX has Python hooks. 8O

This is like the scene in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory when the kids run into the candy room with the chocolate river, what to gorge on first??

MAX vs. Python
- Python is free, no need to buy MAX
- Which is ultimately easier to program in? I'm leaning towards MAX, but I'm a n00b at both.
- MAX has visual tools (buttons, GUIs)
- Python has more latency, but that be worked on and for controls 60mS is fine.
- can't think, I'm in shock...

I'm pretty stoked. Getting a lot of great feedback from people.

Thanks for all the word-of-mouth you guys have been generating!!
Thank YOU, for taking the time to hack away and release the info, it's pretty incredible what you've done, shook up the DAW world, Cubase, Reason, FL, Pro Fools, Logic, most of those users have to scratching their heads right now, looking at Live.

Can't wait to see what user-made tools are around a year from now. We've been living in the dark ages.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

3dot...
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Post by 3dot... » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:37 pm

axou wrote:
3dot... wrote:I felt tempted to press those play buttons on the session grid with my Greasy fingers Since Day 1 ...
quite masochistic, seeing how those are only 16*16 pixels. I'm convinced no interface can be fit for both mouse use AND finger use. If multitouch arrives at the OS level, an entirely reworked interface will need to be done to be effective for finger use.
SO GET ME A 30 inch TOUCH screen TV.... besides I got girlie fingers.... :?

3dot...
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Post by 3dot... » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:43 pm

I think I'll wait to see what you guys come up with and what ableton come up with ...
I'm planning on the monome kit so I guess there's gonna be time for that after I'm done...
OH JOY!

Nathan Ramella
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Post by Nathan Ramella » Fri Jun 08, 2007 11:56 pm

Hey guys, continuing to try and get the word out!

If you like what we're doing come Digg us

http://digg.com/music/LiveAPI_org_Proje ... indows_SDK

So far, only one digg from me. :( It's lonely and needs your attention!
remix.net - versus / liveapi / hangthedj / ammobox

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