The price of hackers

[kenporter]

I think your 100,000 estimate is way high, to be honest.

ew

I agree with EW, not only is this number high, but dealer net is somewhere around 50-60% off retail, which means that it would need to retail (not sell!) for $1200-$1500 for Ableton to charge the dealer $600. Pretty high. I know it was just an example, but I think people seem to forget that if software sells for $600 in the store Ableton doesn't get that $600.

Ken

[smutek]

from $99 to $119 put me off to be honest.
.

a price increase of 20 dollars is actually going to put you off of something you could potentially get an entire lifetime of enjoyment out of?

Might sound a bit crazy, but yes, it really has. Maybe it's from doing this every year since version 1, I don't know man, but I have not been able to bring myself to do it. And I am definitely not going to at this late stage because we all know we will be hearing about version 7 by the end of summer, early fall.

Also, like I said, I strongly prefer to upgrade to the boxed version, the download version would be a compromise for me because I'd like to have the EIC, and I'd like to have sampler.

It gets expensive man, dealing with this every year, so, tacking an extra $20 onto an upgrade option that isn't the complete package just turned me off.

I'm not saying what I feel is right or wrong, just that I'm a paying customer and thats the way I feel, just can't keep doing it every single year.

[smutek]

"lives upgrades are so expensive, I mean every year it's a new version of the software AND they release a new hooded sweatshirt and hat which just adds to the upgrade price"

But you can't really use the hoodies and lidz as partof that argument.

Operator and Sampler are integrated parts of the system. Toys worthy to lust over. A hat, not so much part of the system ya know?

I own operator and I want sampler. I'm not saying it should be free, or isn;t worth it - shit man I'm not even sure what I am saying. When operator first launched there was a vicious debate on this forum. I was one of the supporters of operator for sure, but maybe now I'm getting older, I don't know.

All I know is I look at it and think, fuck man I REALLY want that tool - but the cost... ah marone! It's a killin me...

I'll prob go all out for version 7 then call it quits. Then they'll come out with something amazing in version 8....

And as a side note, I didn;t really care for a while there - figured I'd be fine with 5 (which really I am), but damn, all of this cool stuff being done by purmagnetik (sp?), covert ops, etc. is all version 6 stuff. Makes me feel almost as if I HAVE to upgrade.

[b0unce]

or hows about this:

biting the bullet and sending more money for operator/sampler. As live5 operator users found out, they'd need to upgrade to live6 if they wanted the operator upgrade. Conclusion: weak.

They're gonna pull this same stunt with SAMPLER too I'm willing to bet

[smutek]

Well... as far as I go, I was interested to learn that they offer educational upgrades. I did know they had educational pricing, but had no idea they applied it to upgrades as well. I've just sent them an email to inquire about pricing and if the price is right I will very likely go for it.

[JACKAL & HYDE]

Sampler is just not intuitive enough and not worth the price of admission imo. No dedicated outputs and no choke makes it a pita to use for $200. Those things should have absolutley been integrated before it ever became available. That should have been Abletons biggest selling point - "Use 22 simplers in a big pita rack or buy the new Sampler, and have dedicated outputs on 1 spread at your finger tips with no rack required". As it is now, it just seems like it should have been part of the 6 upgrade enhancing simpler.

[smutek]

That's an interesting take on it. Thanks.

I've been holding off on the demo till I feel I actually have some time to spend with it and/or am actually considering the purchase.

**edit can't really demo it though can I, from live 5. And I've already tried the 6 demo, back when I really didn't have the time to spend with it....

[Johnisfaster]

and no choke makes it a pita.

put samplers polyphony setting to 1 and you then have choke, make a rack with multipule samplers if you want routing options.

this "choke" setting is actually the reason I'm going to be getting sampler sometime soon.

[leedsquietman]

Yes, the software should be cheaper.

But so should Cubase, Logic, Samplitude etc. If these companies reduced their prices by 25-30%, they would pobably not suffer as volume sales would make up the shortfall ... the problem is that it's a risky business and if volume doesn;t make up the shortfall then they're left up the creek without a paddle.

And although I agree that for some people paying a dollar is too much and they'll go to the warezed versions, that this should not mean that companies use that line as an excuse to not offer better value or jack up prices.

Live still does a lot for 500 bucks when you consider Cubase, Samplitude and Logic Pro are more like 900-1k to buy. Then again, Reason, Fruity Loops and Acid Pro are significantly cheaper than Live but offer a lot for their money too.

I agree that the cost of operator and sampler could use a 25%-30% reduction given the competition that exists out there - they're good products but who will buy when better softsynths exist for less?

[Johnisfaster]

If these companies reduced their prices by 25-30%, they would pobably not suffer as volume sales would make up the shortfall

you're probably right but if you think about it for a moment you're just saying that they would make the same amount of money either way BUT by selling more copies of the software you're creating much more customer support demand which basically means more work for the company yet the same profit. that wouldn't be all that wise. it's not like their goal is to sell to as many people as possible even if it means making the same amount of money.

[Johnisfaster]

they're good products but who will buy when better softsynths exist for less?

lots and lots of people bought operator and sampler.

[Mesmer]

Can I convince the original poster to change this thread's name:

The price of Crackers ...
or rather The price of Cracking Ableton.

Thanks.
-h

[Mike Goodwin]

At the moment my little gripe is the price of operator. I would love to buy operator but it it just seems to be a bit overpriced if you ask me. It is a great synth but dam $150USD for it? That works out to be almost $200 CAN after taxes. That is a little crazy for a 4 osc soft synth. Hell I can by Dave smith evolver desktop for $500 used. I own sampler and I do like it but it needs some updates to make it quicker to make more serious patches in. If all you want to do is abstract sound design/synth stuff then it is great. But try and lay out 250 samples in it with 5 vel. layers. Not a nice way to spend your day. In the end I am just bitching, I try not to do that on this board but hey im only human.

[leedsquietman]

Yes tech support costs would increase, but potentially not a problem as more users would spread the word of mouth and get even more on board using it and then Ableton might make the leap into professional circles in a bigger way where other endorsements and such lead to revenue and generate more sales.

I would like to be able to read about someone other than Pete Tong and a bunch of live DJs using Live as a tool, I'd like some serious mainstream producers and megastars to start endorsing Live, it is a pretty complete DAW now that suits a lot of purposes and genres, not just a jungle DJ's (who 95% of th epopulation have never heard of) live performance tool.

I never said that Operator wasn't quality, it just seems to be overpriced and could use a bit of a price cut to become more attractive in the same way that volume sales could attract more users to Live. I mean, come on, we all love a sale and saving a few bucks, right !

[Johnisfaster]

I own operator and I dig it alot but I'll agree that 150 for it is kinda funny considering the price of all the other top vst's out there.

zebra 2 for 200, zebra 2 puts operator to shame and it's only 50 more.

fabfilter twin is only 129

but whatever, I still dig operator and I'm glad I bought it. I just think the price of it is kinda funny.