REASON 4 - Propellerheads finally announce!!

[Tone Deft]

There should be a requirement of at least 20 automated time signature changes per song.

Entries with lyrics not including dragons, trolls or talking trees are immediately disqualified.

or stonehenge?

Do the new synths go to eleven?
http://www.liveearth.msn.com./spinaltap <--- new movie

Holy fuck, with a synth named THOR Reason is the ultimate prog rock DAW. That's cooler than a 3 day non-stop D&D and Red Bull session while your mom is away. But even more reason (no pun intended) to have time signature changes. I wonder if that will take away from the Reason's abilities to make trance? I should consult EVILEVILEVIL, but not EVILEVILEVILEVIL, although EVILEVILEVILEVILEVILEVIL might know too.

[tjwett]

...aye, if you've ever listened to anything from Claude Von Stroke / Justin Martin / any of the Dirty Bird artists pretty much.. you are listening to music produced solely in Reason.

a lot of Luke Vibert too.

[Hypomixolydian]

I am looking forward to Reason 4 !!!!

Reason 3 is great particularly in Rewire (I haven't had any problems or issues with it) and Combinator is without limit. One thing for sure about Reason is that it gets better with each new incarnation. I expect no different with the new version.

The only thing I dislike about Reason is the shitty sequencer, so I hope that is improved. I don't care it can't record audio or support VST as Rewire solves that issue.

I hope it doesn't take too long with the beta testing. I can't wait !!

[socketghost]

just been messing about with the beta - not got in too deep yet, but yes, the (detachable!) sequencer looks MUCH better..

[thelocalhost]

just been messing about with the beta - not got in too deep yet, but yes, the (detachable!) sequencer looks MUCH better..

Anything would be a dramatic improvement. The Reason sequencer for version =< 3.0 was horrid.

It's nice they've attempted to fix that.... but it's too late. People have moved on.

It's a shame they haven't recreated Rewire to be more flexible. At least allow the slave to send midi back to the master.

[JACKAL & HYDE]

shame about the time signature automation eh

Not really for me and 10,000,000 other producers world wide. Maybe if I were doing classical/jazz pieces or scoring a drama. But for Rock, Pop, Industrial, Techno, hiphop etc automating the time signature is totally irrelevant and wouldnt be used 99.999% of the time. So for me, not a "shame" at all.

if they didn't include video in live 6, i would say that live didn't really have a use for time signature automation. but for me and other people like me, who are composers for film and tv, who love live and hate logic, being able to sync to video but not having video output and not having time signature automation is beyond frustrating. just because mainstream music has dumbed itself down, it doesn't mean that musicians as a whole have.

Agreed, you can see I said it would be good if scoring a "drama" in my original post. But; yes, mainstream music has become dumbed down, but musicians have become slaves to technology aswell. Incredible how we were able to score all those Dr Who flicks and Academy award productions for the last 80 years with the simple click click click of wind up metronomes where you had to read the timing on the score, and play accordingly to a mere click. To get what they had, you'd simply leave the metronome settings on 1/2 1/4 1/8 1/16 and follow the timing in the score like 9 year old piano students do every day at thier teachers houses with old wind ups. Lastly, if you were desperate for the tic - toc - toc - toc - tic - toc - toc of an automated electronic metronome and couldnt survive with just a one tone click, you could sample the metronome tic & toc and make time signature clips by sequencing every possible time signature, render them, name them and throw the clips into a time signature folder so you could drag the next needed timing count into your song/score for your next sequence leaving the master metronome off. This would probably be faster than setting up time signature automation anyway and can be done right now.

It amazes me that 100 piece orchestras can switch multiple timings while reading a score and watching the simple wand of a maestro with no electronic click at all, but being todays modern technology slaves, we've come to a point where we cant make a prog rock song without "electronic timing automation" in our DAWs.

[thelocalhost]

Agreed, you can see I said it would be good if scoring a "drama" in my original post. But; yes, mainstream music has become dumbed down, but musicians have become slaves to technology aswell. Incredible how we were able to score all those Dr Who flicks and Academy award productions for the last 80 years with the simple click click click of wind up metronomes where you had to read the timing on the score, and play accordingly to a mere click. To get what they had, you'd simply leave the metronome settings on 1/2 1/4 1/8 1/16 and follow the timing in the score like 9 year old piano students do every day at thier teachers houses with old wind ups. Lastly, if you were desperate for the tic - toc - toc - toc - tic - toc - toc of an automated electronic metronome and couldnt survive with just a one tone click, you could sample the metronome tic & toc and make time signature clips by sequencing every possible time signature, render them, name them and throw the clips into a time signature folder so you could drag the next needed timing count into your song/score for your next sequence leaving the master metronome off. This would probably be faster than setting up time signature automation anyway and can be done right now.

It amazes me that 100 piece orchestras can switch multiple timings while reading a score and watching the simple wand of a maestro with no electronic click at all, but being todays modern technology slaves, we've come to a point where we cant make a prog rock song without "electronic timing automation" in our DAWs.

You are a 100% genius. From the top of your head to the tip of your toes.... pure genius combined with sound reasoning.

[mdk]

we've come to a point where we cant make a prog rock song without "electronic timing automation" in our DAWs.

id like it in live, it would be really useful and i dont even make prog rock.

[kb420]

I like the new sequencer and the regroove machine.

Thor also looks like a cool new synth.

Really cannot complain about Reason concept -- fast, stable and fun to play with. Rewiring R4 into Live6 is all I need if audio recording/manipulation is required.

+1. I've grown tired of constantly using new VSTs in Live and I really do miss Reason. I've used 2.5 before and rewiring it with Live would make a perfect combination.

I think I'm sold. Using it as an instrument for trance and progressive is perfect, especially since I don't like the inbuilt stuff in Live. It also allows me to keep working in Live as I love the simplicity of putting stuff together and also means I can keep using the handful of VSTs I love, ie Albino.

I can definitely see why they didn't add VST support in. Audio would be nice but I don't need it with Live there to do it for me.

Reason 4 + Live 6 = WIN

On a side not, why does everyone complain as if they are just going to use Reason. As far as I know, most people here have Live so if you do get Reason, there's your dream combination right there. I'm fine with people pointing out things but at least do it like you are reviewing the product, not just ranting about it.

A BIG +1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JACKAL & HYDE]

Agreed, you can see I said it would be good if scoring a "drama" in my original post. But; yes, mainstream music has become dumbed down, but musicians have become slaves to technology aswell. Incredible how we were able to score all those Dr Who flicks and Academy award productions for the last 80 years with the simple click click click of wind up metronomes where you had to read the timing on the score, and play accordingly to a mere click. To get what they had, you'd simply leave the metronome settings on 1/2 1/4 1/8 1/16 and follow the timing in the score like 9 year old piano students do every day at thier teachers houses with old wind ups. Lastly, if you were desperate for the tic - toc - toc - toc - tic - toc - toc of an automated electronic metronome and couldnt survive with just a one tone click, you could sample the metronome tic & toc and make time signature clips by sequencing every possible time signature, render them, name them and throw the clips into a time signature folder so you could drag the next needed timing count into your song/score for your next sequence leaving the master metronome off. This would probably be faster than setting up time signature automation anyway and can be done right now.

It amazes me that 100 piece orchestras can switch multiple timings while reading a score and watching the simple wand of a maestro with no electronic click at all, but being todays modern technology slaves, we've come to a point where we cant make a prog rock song without "electronic timing automation" in our DAWs.

You are a 100% genius. From the top of your head to the tip of your toes.... pure genius combined with sound reasoning.

Thats what I'm implying? Hardly.

I agreed with the original poster regarding music scores, then gave my opinions (which I hope everyone is entitled too) and a work around since Live doesnt have this feature. No sarcasm, no swearing, no personal attacks, no "genius" implied whatsoever.

You however, do not dispute a single thing I've said and instead, come in with a personal attack loaded with sarcasm.


Nice

[Poster]

... Reason becomes very interesting again instead of just being an esoteric and fun curiosity thats out of tune with the real world.

Well, you say that, but while people like Black Eyed Peas / etc are using it onstage, I guess it definitely does have a tuneful part to play in the real world still

And that means what?

nothing more and/or less then it being 'an esoteric and fun curiosity thats out of tune with the real world'..
not sure which real world you're refering to but it ain't mine..

Reason is perfectly good as a standalone package - I dont think anyone will dispute that - its integration where its problems start and why alot of people I know who used to use it no longer do so.

I can use a hardware synth or hardware workstation in a *more* integrated manner with Live than I can reason ffs! Maybe I just have a rather advance way of working with and inegrating hardware - who knows - I rather doubt it though - I dont think they way I use hardware with Live is any different to anyone else. (???)

rewireing live<>reason is so drop dead easy and integrated..

I use both hardware and reason with live..

so you can't send audio to reason and reason can't send midi..
but that's basicly the only difference with hardware..

comparing reason with hardware is apples and oranges anyway..

[noisetonepause]

Agreed, you can see I said it would be good if scoring a "drama" in my original post. But; yes, mainstream music has become dumbed down, but musicians have become slaves to technology aswell. Incredible how we were able to score all those Dr Who flicks and Academy award productions for the last 80 years with the simple click click click of wind up metronomes where you had to read the timing on the score, and play accordingly to a mere click. To get what they had, you'd simply leave the metronome settings on 1/2 1/4 1/8 1/16 and follow the timing in the score like 9 year old piano students do every day at thier teachers houses with old wind ups. Lastly, if you were desperate for the tic - toc - toc - toc - tic - toc - toc of an automated electronic metronome and couldnt survive with just a one tone click, you could sample the metronome tic & toc and make time signature clips by sequencing every possible time signature, render them, name them and throw the clips into a time signature folder so you could drag the next needed timing count into your song/score for your next sequence leaving the master metronome off. This would probably be faster than setting up time signature automation anyway and can be done right now.

It amazes me that 100 piece orchestras can switch multiple timings while reading a score and watching the simple wand of a maestro with no electronic click at all, but being todays modern technology slaves, we've come to a point where we cant make a prog rock song without "electronic timing automation" in our DAWs.

You are a 100% genius. From the top of your head to the tip of your toes.... pure genius combined with sound reasoning.

Thats what I'm implying? Hardly.

I agreed with the original poster regarding music scores, then gave my opinions (which I hope everyone is entitled too) and a work around since Live doesnt have this feature. No sarcasm, no swearing, no personal attacks, no "genius" implied whatsoever.

You however, do not dispute a single thing I've said and instead, come in with a personal attack loaded with sarcasm.


Nice

I didn't read it as sarcasm at all. If it was meant as such, I'd like to repeat it without sarcasm, because what you said was absolutely true and really quite brilliant:

You are a 100% genius. From the top of your head to the tip of your toes.... pure genius combined with sound reasoning.

!

[thelocalhost]

I agreed with the original poster regarding music scores, then gave my opinions (which I hope everyone is entitled too) and a work around since Live doesnt have this feature. No sarcasm, no swearing, no personal attacks, no "genius" implied whatsoever.

You however, do not dispute a single thing I've said and instead, come in with a personal attack loaded with sarcasm.


Nice

It's not worth the effort and I have no desire to dispute anything with you. We are very fundamentally different people. The only reason I quote your posts, is to punctuate your audacious/ridiculous quotes (e.g., "musicians have become slaves to technology").

[JACKAL & HYDE]

ok.. I understand but alot of it is still true imo.

When learning piano as a kid I had (as well as my teacher) an old tick metronome. It didnt matter if there were timing changes, you read the score and kept playing to the click. There was no "bang" - tic - tic - tic.

Even now playing to a score with no metronome at all with different timing changes what do we do? We read the score and change the timing in our heads and play along. Writing a score with no metronome, the same thing.

So now after years of that, I settle in with a daw and get so wrapped up in the daw, that I cannot do anything without automated timing that I can hear and play along too. That to me is becoming a slave to the new technology. When I'm looking for things that I didnt need 20 years ago to play the same songs I played as a kid.

all imo of course.

[Fledz]

well that's it really - because all the developments seem to be aimed at people using it standalone, they never seem to advance it for people who use it with other hosts etc

Thor, Subtractor and Maelstrom all boxed into a combinator in many different variations is much more than Live can offer in terms of synths. It's more than enough for me to rewire

oh man - tell that to the covert ops - you can do a hell of a lot with Live + Racks + Ableton instruments

in fact I have barely used anything but Live in ages

anyway, I'm really not here trying to cane reason - I cut my teeth on it

I'm just surprised there still isnt a way to use the maelstrom filters on audio routed from Live Clips for example and I think it would have been awesome if they did what FLStudio did and provided everything as plug-ins

if it's just an upgrade for you - go for it, but for me there isn much appeal in Reason

Ah but you didn't notice where I said that I don't like Live's inbuilt synths

Of course you can do good things with them, but for me personally and for the type of music I make they just don't cut it. The stuff in live seems to be tailored more to the hip-hop, breaks, techno, glitchy acidy crowd. Nothing wrong with that at all.

The problem arises when I need lush pads, hollow and echoey leads, supersaws, subtle atmosphere FX etc. Yes it can be done in Live but they still don't compare to Reason and other VSTs ala Albino, z3ta, Vanguard, Atmosphere etc

As for the use of Maelstrom filters, fuck yea that would be awesome. I adore the Maelstrom and is one of the reasons why I want to use Reason again. Oh well, maybe next time

So like I said...Live 6 + Reason 4 = WIN