Sequencing DJ sets with Ableton, how good is it? (not Live)

[convert]

Im interested in using software to create a dj set sequence by importing the tracks and positioning them in sequence to create a long mix/recording.

Not DJ ing live

I've looked at Mixmeister which is very easy to use but how good is Ableton for this and is it difficult to use?

I also need to automate volume levels etc it would be good to draw the volumes like you would in other audio sequencers.

What about pitch? mixmeister auto detects pitch so and matches tempos together......what about ableton??

Advise please

[hacktheplanet]

Yes, it is incredibly easy. I use Live to create my DJ mixes. The biggest hurdle is perfecting warping your tracks. Once you do this, it is a lot of fun to get really creative mixing and editing your tracks.

Just watch out for the haters saying you're a poser.

[rikhyray]

maybe Mixmeister works for some primitive music with crude rhythms and 2-3 chord harmonies. I run my whole HD through Mixmeister and the results were hilarious and mostly unusable.
Ableton is 100% reliable, once you warped/set a song you know what you will hear while Mixmeister gives surprises unacceptable for working live.
I like the concept of Mixmeister, more innovative then imitating decks, would choose it over Traktor for DJing but wouldn't expect the wonders they promise.
The BPM tool is great, I always run a song through it and the enter the BPM in Live before warping.

[mkelly]

The BPM tool is great, I always run a song through it and the enter the BPM in Live before warping.

Dunno if you meant the BPM tool in Mixmeister itself, or this freebie one:
http://www.mixmeister.com/download_freestuff.html- which I presume is re-use of the routines in MixMeister itself.

If you did mean the freebie tool - well consider this a verbose link

[rikhyray]

The BPM tool is great, I always run a song through it and the enter the BPM in Live before warping.

Dunno if you meant the BPM tool in Mixmeister itself, or this freebie one:
http://www.mixmeister.com/download_freestuff.html- which I presume is re-use of the routines in MixMeister itself.

If you did mean the freebie tool - well consider this a verbose link

Yes, this one, from my experience, if I enter the value detected by the Mixmeister tool first, before importing a song, it helps Live with warping, and/or I have less work correcting manualy.

[convert]

so are we saying that Ableton is more accurate for beat maching than mixmeister?

I do like the ease of use with Mixmeister but i also want the best results

[rikhyray]

so are we saying that Ableton is more accurate for beat maching than mixmeister?

I do like the ease of use with Mixmeister but i also want the best results

For me yes, I played a bit with mixmeister last night, as said before the ideas are great but the results less.
If I would mix like that a club owner would be justified to fire me.

[convert]

I tried warping a few fines in ableton and mixing together and found that it wasn't very tight sounding!
I tried the same in Mixmeister and got better results!

Maybe i didn't warp the files correctly im not sure?

I looped a few sections of the files first to check the grid was positiond correctly
buit didn't get great results,

is it just practice?

[wamcocoon]

Read about warp marking.

It's not up to Live, it's up to you to warp mark, which more often than not, is simply up to you telling Live how to look for the beat.

After that, you're free at last, free at last!

(For the record, constant/simple hip hop and techno songs are almost sure to be automatically warp marked correctly.)

I can say for a fact that nothing is tighter for beat matching than Ableton Live (citation needed).

[rikhyray]

You might need some time tolearn, run through a tutorial,read some manuals, books after all I warped few hundred songs till now so it is easy and quick for me. I guess I am used to total control with Ableton, it is so tight but till I checked other softwares didn't know how good Live is.
In fact I wondered why DJs want to use Ableton while there is so much of cheaper and easier to use softwares. Obviously because it can do what others cannot and what it does , does it better.

[Khazul]

Im interested in using software to create a dj set sequence by importing the tracks and positioning them in sequence to create a long mix/recording.

Not DJ ing live

I've looked at Mixmeister which is very easy to use but how good is Ableton for this and is it difficult to use?

I also need to automate volume levels etc it would be good to draw the volumes like you would in other audio sequencers.

What about pitch? mixmeister auto detects pitch so and matches tempos together......what about ableton??

Advise please

There is nothing better than Live for doing this. Done quite a few long party sets this way.

The nice advantage of doing this is even if you going to do some of it live, leaves you focus on other stuff rather than just mixing - live synth bits, wild shit in transitions that you could never do manually etc...

[Khazul]

I tried warping a few fines in ableton and mixing together and found that it wasn't very tight sounding!
I tried the same in Mixmeister and got better results!

Maybe i didn't warp the files correctly im not sure?

I looped a few sections of the files first to check the grid was positiond correctly
buit didn't get great results,

is it just practice?

You need to sometimes spend quite a bit of time prepping tracks, particulary find an on beat start point to start the 1.1.1 marker. Do this with the Live Click switch on and align every thing to that.

Also spend alot of time going through tracks in detail - get the warp markers set right, also look for beat slips - alot of house and 90s dance stuff slips the beat by an 1/8th half way through which can make trigger the next track a real pain if your beat/or bar quantised.

Ill often do some cut and pasting to extend intros and outros to give flexibility, even prepare so special transitions for stuff that Ill nearly allways run together and save those transitions separately. A good example - looping and enhancing the stabs on the lead in to insomnia and mute around them for extended transitions from something else with a long outro.

With slipped beats - they are just a pain - they often sound great in the track - so use them again - cut and paste the section - extend the track to bring it back on beat again.

DJing and set preparation with Live to my mind aint like normal DJing - and I think its best not to think of it as normal DJing. Your options for injecting you own style and creativity into the music and whole set go way way beyond normal DJing - exploit that - I tend to think of say a 90 minute set as NOT a DJ set, but instead a 90 minute part studio and part live mashup - have fun with it.

The biggest plus - because of the editing flexibility - you can make the most unusual transitions work, and even some of the most unusal material as well, for example, would you think of sticking something like Phil Collins - in the air tonight in a set? No - not normally - nice track but it sux for a DJ set - unles you stick it in Live and mash it with a dance beat - the boad appeal of doing stuff like that at gig with a very mixed audience cannot be unerestimated.

Also its very good for doing old school house and breaks sets - ie stuff with wildly varying styles and tempos that is a complete arse to mix well on a pair of decks, or even mix well in something with Tracktor, Virtual DJ etc, but goes down really well with some of the older clubbing audiences - far far better than most normal house/trance/r&b/electro etc sets and has good energy too.

Also on Vinyl/CD - you would probably never try and do a 3 way or 4 way mashup - hell most of us probably couldnt manage to keep sync *and* mix/beat juggle a 2 way mashup live for 4 minutes - I sure as hell couldnt. Prepping that kind of thing in Live for a live set is really easy.