yet another rant about time signature automation

[snowtires]

You're not getting me.

I don't care what you do or don't do with warp, I respect you for not using it much, I dig that you actually PLAY instruments and not arpeggiators, very cool.

I do care about people ranting and posting BAD information on the forum, especially with something like warp that's a unique feature to Live that's pretty misunderstood in the first place. I'm often wrong on shit I post but I don't rant on subjects I'm unsure of, there are some topics I only read about and never post on.


For everything you ever wanted to know about warp do some experiments. How does A compare to B?? Drop a utility plug-in onto B, invert its phase 180' and play A and B at the same time. Warped, unwarped, at tempo, above and below tempo.

but that's what i'm saying: i don't need to phase invert the track and compare, i hear the track, at tempo, warped, and it has digital artifacting. i hear the same track, at tempo, unwarped, and there is no artifacting. i don't know why i would have to go through such a big rigmarole to tell me something i can already see/hear for myself.

Maybe to understand how and why something is warping...
Yes, no doubt you can hear warping. I also have no doubt that there are clips where you cant hear it. Those would be clips cropped exactly to length played back at original tempo.
Your statement is only half-true.

so any clip that involves a punch in or out that isn't on a downbeat is automatically going to sound bad warped, but it is impossible (or at least, as far as i've been able to tell, with the warping options that live has given) to turn warping off upon record for these clips, so i have to do it manually for every single one. which leads me back to the point of, if it's in time, why does it have to matter that it's not on a downbeat, why must live treat the beginning of every clip as if it was beat one?

[snowtires]

You're not getting me.

I don't care what you do or don't do with warp, I respect you for not using it much, I dig that you actually PLAY instruments and not arpeggiators, very cool.

I do care about people ranting and posting BAD information on the forum, especially with something like warp that's a unique feature to Live that's pretty misunderstood in the first place. I'm often wrong on shit I post but I don't rant on subjects I'm unsure of, there are some topics I only read about and never post on.


For everything you ever wanted to know about warp do some experiments. How does A compare to B?? Drop a utility plug-in onto B, invert its phase 180' and play A and B at the same time. Warped, unwarped, at tempo, above and below tempo.

but that's what i'm saying: i don't need to phase invert the track and compare, i hear the track, at tempo, warped, and it has digital artifacting. i hear the same track, at tempo, unwarped, and there is no artifacting. i don't know why i would have to go through such a big rigmarole to tell me something i can already see/hear for myself.

Facts is facts. What you hear can be placebo or a problem somewhere else in your audio chain. It's a really simple experiment to try. Between trusting your ears or anyone's ears or doing a simple phase inversion, ANYONE would prefer the phase inversion. You're just being stubborn, you hear it, you won't take another look at it. It's worthwhile doing so you understand Live better. Again, it's you limiting yourself and complaining about it.

I don't think there's much to be had from this thread anymore, I'm getting sucked into the argumentative nature it all. Bad juju.

this happens to dry vocals, with no effects, dry bass, dry guitar, etc. i am not being stubborn, there is no need for me to do a phase inversion if the problem corrects itself when warping is turned off. usually when you fix what is causing a problem, you say, 'ok, that's what was causing it.' all a phase inversion is going to do is tell me, 'ok, you just wasted an extra 20 seconds to figure out that you needed to turn the warping off'

[hoffman2k]

but that's what i'm saying: i don't need to phase invert the track and compare, i hear the track, at tempo, warped, and it has digital artifacting. i hear the same track, at tempo, unwarped, and there is no artifacting. i don't know why i would have to go through such a big rigmarole to tell me something i can already see/hear for myself.

Maybe to understand how and why something is warping...
Yes, no doubt you can hear warping. I also have no doubt that there are clips where you cant hear it. Those would be clips cropped exactly to length played back at original tempo.
Your statement is only half-true.

so any clip that involves a punch in or out that isn't on a downbeat is automatically going to sound bad warped, but it is impossible (or at least, as far as i've been able to tell, with the warping options that live has given) to turn warping off upon record for these clips, so i have to do it manually for every single one. which leads me back to the point of, if it's in time, why does it have to matter that it's not on a downbeat, why must live treat the beginning of every clip as if it was beat one?

I give up. Downbeat has nothing to do with what i just said. You're talking about different things as far as I can tell.
Back to Time Signatures. If you wonna discuss warping, do it in the warping thread where you'll find posts similar to your own with longer replies then I care to write on this subject.

Beep-Beep-Beep-Beep-Beep-Beep-Beep-Beep-Beep-Beep-Beep.....

[chis]

Not even in the post-red super wankery period.

This man is calling Discipline "super-wankery"! LM, you've just invalidated all of your arguments. Go back to your corner please and listen to Discipline again!

[leisuremuffin]

lol! yeah, i know, i do actually like that record, but i like the 70's and previous stuff better. Even the really stupid ones like cirkus ( i thiink that's the name of that one, really really silly, with happy family and the whole price rupert awakes epic thing).



.lm.

[chis]

some of you are pro time sigs just so you can go on about how sophisticated your music supposedly is. Put yer dick away and get to the point.

Please de-register from the forums. Now.

Edit: LM, yes I prefer Red, Court and Poseidon to pretty much everything else they've done. But what the hell happened with Thrakattack? Now THAT is super-ultra-wankery rubbish.

[leisuremuffin]

oh sorry, it's called lizard.


.lm.

[Tone Deft]

some of you are pro time sigs just so you can go on about how sophisticated your music supposedly is. Put yer dick away and get to the point.

Please de-register from the forums. Now.

Thank you for illustrating the point. Have a cookie.

[chis]

Your hypocrisy continues to astound me, Tone.

Yeah, maybe I will go and use Reaper instead. At least they have a more sensible community...

[leisuremuffin]

Edit: LM, yes I prefer Red, Court and Poseidon to pretty much everything else they've done. But what the hell happened with Thrakattack? Now THAT is super-ultra-wankery rubbish.

good god! yeah, that is almost unlistenable!


red was just awesome because of how ahead of it's time it was. really heavy shit! great sounding record too.


I really like islands too, it's really underated. The sailors tale is the bomb though, and they continued to play it live for a long time after and was always a highlight for me at least. Awesome!



.lm.

[popslut]

The reason you're all utterly clueless tossers who work in IT support instead of touring the world as musicians and DJs is that you spend so much time writing 500 word posts on here with the sole motivation of being "right" and making somebody else "wrong" instead of putting all of your efforts into bettering yourselves.


Some of you should look at your post counts and ask yourselves "is this a good use of my time?"

[Tone Deft]

The reason you're all utterly clueless tossers who work in IT support instead of touring the world as musicians and DJs is that you spend so much time writing 500 word posts on here with the sole motivation of being "right" and making somebody else "wrong" instead of putting all of your efforts into bettering yourselves.


Some of you should look at your post counts and ask yourselves "is this a good use of my time?"

Do you ever get tired of embarassing yourself?


ANYWAY... I'm sure the Abes have taken some of this in, good points made all around. I agree with lm's observation that nobody is saying to NOT include time signature changes. It could be a new feature that would lead to some really cool, new innovative music. Put it in line with all the coveted feature requests.

[chis]

*Moves to the Reaper forums*

[fatrabbit]

To the guy who said that using time signature changes is "wankery"...

I don't think anyone says to themselves - "right i'm going to write a tune that's mainly in 5/4, but has a repeating section that goes around a 5/4, 6/4, 4/4 pattern before going into 3/4 just to show how sophisticated I am".

What happens is you noodle around on your guitar and/or drums and/or bass etc. until you get something with a good feel and then you work out the time signature changes from that (if any).

[popslut]

Do you ever get tired of embarassing yourself?

Some of you should look at your post counts and ask yourselves "is this a good use of my time?"