A question for all you mac users...

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
supamonsta
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Post by supamonsta » Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:24 am

I was on Pc's since 1995 ...
loved it.

but had lots of bugs to fix and fix and refix etc. (say I did'nt use it good, yes perhaps...)

I bought a macbook in february 2007

(of course with new soft live 6, but lots of free stuff on the web -DAW, soud editors, cd burners...)


I use it like I used my pc's (perhap's not good, perhap's) AND IT WORKS GREAT.

I love my macbook because :


I AM NOT AFRAID ANYMORE. :D

I can say YES noproblem when somenone invites me to play in a gig,


Macbook works, and it's all. No bug fixing, driver searching or else, limitations are just hardware.

and the mac users community is so practical, we all got the same specs !!! so we have an answer for each problem, and quickly.


BTW I find it ugly (white macbook), but really useful, handy, compact,

and it works, that's all.

cheers

nolus
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Post by nolus » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:18 pm

I'm a long time PC user, but the other day I had to debug some web pages that didn't display correctly on a mac.

My first impressions were that in some ways I like it more than windows, but in other ways it remided me just how good Windows XP actually is.

it was mainly the little details that I found irritating. In time I could probably get used to it, but...

would it kill them to allow resizing a window from any edge or corner?

why is it better to have all windows shareing the same menu bar instead of each having its own? seems like pure bloody mindedness to me.

How do you quickly get back to a window that gets buried beneath others? like if you have muliple Safari windows open for instance. I am sure there is a way but I could not figure it out.

way too much animated crap for my taste.

No context menus! (ok I know there is a way to enable this, but I didn't have time to find it)

Don't get me wrong. I am sure all this is just a matter of getting used to a new UI. but I didn't see anything that made me want to rush out and buy one and I could not see what all the fuss is about.

and to top it off my web page bug turned out to be caused by a bug in Safari. Sure I can work around it and it seems to be fixed in the v4 beta, but life is already hard enough for web developers without adding more problems.7

On balance I think both systems have their share of annoyances, but also both are incredibly well designed full of thought and amazing attention to detail.

So when you choose between Windows/PC/OSX/Mac. Do it for the right reasons. Get what works for you, runs the apps or supports the hardware you want. Most of all ignore the hype surrounding the issue.
ask yourself, if XP was really as bad as some Mac zealots claim would Microsoft be the most successful software company ever?
"That very perceptive of you Mr Stapleton, and rather unexpected... in a G Major"

sqook
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Post by sqook » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:35 pm

nolus wrote:I'm a long time PC user, but the other day I had to debug some web pages that didn't display correctly on a mac.
You know, that's actually why apple made safari for windows... it's the same exact rendering engine as on the mac. It's doubtful that safari will take a significant marketshare away from explorer/firefox, but since it is cross-platform now, there should be better compatibility for webpage rendering and webapps on the mac (or so the reasoning goes..)
would it kill them to allow resizing a window from any edge or corner?
Yes. Inside of Steve Jobs' brain is an autokill switch that will go off if the Apple must change the Human Interface Design Guidelines document in such a manner to make logical sense where such sense was previously absent. This is also why you can't rearrange items in the iTunes "Music" view, for instance... you are bound to make a playlist, drag the items you want in there, and rearrange them to your heart's delight. Doing it in the main "Music" view could put an end to poor old Steve!
why is it better to have all windows shareing the same menu bar instead of each having its own? seems like pure bloody mindedness to me.
I actually don't mind this aspect of the Mac UI so much, though it also seemed illogical to me at first. The reasoning is as follows... first, it lets the user more clearly know which application is in the foreground. Second, you basically never need access to the menu contents of two windows at the same time. Third, it saves screen real estate.
How do you quickly get back to a window that gets buried beneath others? like if you have muliple Safari windows open for instance. I am sure there is a way but I could not figure it out.
Command+` (command = the "open apple" key). The 'tick' key may seem like a strange choice, but it's actually rather nice, because Command+Tab flips between applications (just like in windows), and the tick is right above that key, at least on the US-English keyboard.

Or, if you prefer, you can use exposé, which I doubt you would, because...
way too much animated crap for my taste.
You must be rather bitter about the way that Windows has been evolving over the years, especially in Vista? :) Anyways, some of this stuff can be easily disabled in system preferences, others of it deeper in OSX with "power-user" apps like Onyx. Either way, the eye candy aspect of OSX is designed to be flashy, but also functional at the same time. Contrast this to the windows sound events for practically everything short of typing, which I'm sure they considered at one point to make Windows more comfortable for old people whose previous experience with computers is seeing them in movies.
No context menus! (ok I know there is a way to enable this, but I didn't have time to find it)
That's a per-application thing. Some apps have a lot; the Apple ones prefer to keep them limited. Blame it on the dumb one-button mouse philosophy (also connected to above mentioned brain-detonation chip).
On balance I think both systems have their share of annoyances, but also both are incredibly well designed full of thought and amazing attention to detail.
Ditto that.
So when you choose between Windows/PC/OSX/Mac. Do it for the right reasons. Get what works for you, runs the apps or supports the hardware you want. Most of all ignore the hype surrounding the issue.
ask yourself, if XP was really as bad as some Mac zealots claim would Microsoft be the most successful software company ever?
Technically you could argue that their success is due in no small part to their exclusive distribution channels to most major PC manufacturers, their brutal business practices, etc. I tend to agree with you, though... Windows isn't perfect, but evidently, it's good enough for ~90% of computer users.

noisetonepause
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Post by noisetonepause » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:28 pm

They're both shite. Neither Windows nor OS X are a patch on operating systems made 10-15 years ago. They're slow and resource hungry and completely devoid of any sense of usability.

Get an Amiga with OS3.5, or dual 604 PPC mac running BeOS. That's a real computer.
Suit #1: I mean, have you got any insight as to why a bright boy like this would jeopardize the lives of millions?
Suit #2: No, sir, he says he does this sort of thing for fun.

freqn
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Post by freqn » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:31 pm

One word from a recent mac convert................





preference.
Last edited by freqn on Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

noisetonepause
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Post by noisetonepause » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:36 pm

nolus wrote:if XP was really as bad as some Mac zealots claim would Microsoft be the most successful software company ever?
It's not 'as bad' as most Mac zealots claim - it's worse. The "free" market has succesfully and consistently selected the worst technology for survival every time it has been presented with a choice. The few times something good has happened - like PCI over ISA, or even NT over olde Windows - users have had to be dragged, kicking and screaming and with five-ten year transitory periods and layers and layers of backwards compatibility bloat and cruft as a result. Microsoft capitalised on an early advantage - which was handed to them on a plate by IBM - and the world has suffered for 20 years as a result.
Suit #1: I mean, have you got any insight as to why a bright boy like this would jeopardize the lives of millions?
Suit #2: No, sir, he says he does this sort of thing for fun.

nolus
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Post by nolus » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:03 pm

sqook wrote: You know, that's actually why apple made safari for windows... it's the same exact rendering engine as on the mac.
yeah, that's what I thought, so I tested against the v4 beta of Safari on windows before demoing to my client (a mac user). Everything seemed ok so went ahead with the demo - and all my lovely floating objects came up in the wrong places. I think the main reason for porting Safari to windows is for iPhone application development.
Inside of Steve Jobs' brain is an autokill switch that will go off if the Apple must change the Human Interface Design Guidelines document in such a manner to make logical sense where such sense was previously absent.
LOL (literaly)
Command+` (command = the "open apple" key). The 'tick' key may seem like a strange choice, but it's actually rather nice, because Command+Tab flips between applications (just like in windows), and the tick is right above that key, at least on the US-English keyboard.
Thanks for that!

You must be rather bitter about the way that Windows has been evolving over the years, especially in Vista? :)
not actually bitter, it's just a personal taste thing.
Contrast this to the windows sound events for practically everything short of typing
LOL again, I had forgotten how naf the sysrem sounds are. It's one of the first things I disable on a new PC.
Windows isn't perfect
Amen to that!

The thing I hate most about Windows these days (and apple seem to be increasingly going the same way) is all the stuf that it does by itself without so much as a "by your leave". Call me old fasioned but I like my machine to do what it is told to do and no more.
"That very perceptive of you Mr Stapleton, and rather unexpected... in a G Major"

SubFunk
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Post by SubFunk » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:06 pm

OSX all the way. period.

that is why MAC.

because of all the reasons given already hundred of times.
*** Image GAFM ***

nolus
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Post by nolus » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:13 pm

noisetonepause wrote:They're both shite. Neither Windows nor OS X are a patch on operating systems made 10-15 years ago. They're slow and resource hungry and completely devoid of any sense of usability.

Get an Amiga with OS3.5, or dual 604 PPC mac running BeOS. That's a real computer.
Totally agree. All I want from my computer is to run my chosen programs as efficiently as possible.

There are a couple of open source initiatives to bring back beos (or something like it). but progress seems somewhat glacial.
"That very perceptive of you Mr Stapleton, and rather unexpected... in a G Major"

nathan m
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Post by nathan m » Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:45 pm

I usually try to avoid mac vs pc scraps like the plague.

this is the second time that i have seen someone claiming that there are prettier pcs out there. can you post links. I don't think that macs are the most beautifully designed objects on the planet, but I have never seen a prettier pc. particularly in a laptop.

I don't care if you prefer pc or mac, just curious.

Brainstormer
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Post by Brainstormer » Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:12 am

Another thing that I've not seen mentioned yet (although I didn't read the whole thread 100% thoroughly) is the continuous restarts with windows. Each time you install an app, an update, or whatever, windows wants you to restart. This is yet another strain on the drive's lifespan, alongside defragging, virus/spyware scans, etc.

nearly every time you switch a windows machine on they have updates waiting to be installed. (more restarts)! I'm not saying Macs don't update, but there's far less patching & fixes needed in OS-X.

Also bear this in mind; MS-DOS (the foundation of Windows) came about in the '80s. The underpinning of OS-X is UNIX, which came about in the '50s. So of course it's going to be more stable. As any problems were ironed out years ago.

I recently gave my mum my old MacBook when I bought a MacBook Pro, since she was having a bad time working windows on her laptop, all the updates/virus/spyware scans & restarts each time she switched it on didn't help either. It got to a point where she just didn't bother using it. She uses the MacBook all the time! In return, she gave me her HP Pavilion laptop since she didn't want anything more to do with it. The first thing I did was install Kubuntu (Linux)!

I do have (and still use) a windows based DAW, but after a virus losing a heap of my work a few years ago, I isolated it from all internet connectivity. I don't need to worry about this on the Mac, and can safely work on music whilst being connected to the internet without any worries.
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popslut
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Post by popslut » Thu Jul 05, 2007 5:44 am

You all must be using different versions of Windows to me because I get into my studio every day, switch on my PC, work for 16 hours and then switch it off and go home.


I never scan for virii, spyware or trojans, I never have to reboot for anything, I never see the registry and I never have to deal with dll's or corrupt files.

I switch it on, open my apps [mainly Nuendo] do my work and never have a problem. To borrow a phrase from the Apple adverts - "It just works."

System sounds are disabled [obviously] and I have made a few small tweaks to the way it runs [XP Pro SP2] like switching off the animated crap and the "themes" but that's it.

It automatically defrags once a month while I'm in bed and I really don't give a shit what it looks like [!!!] because it is just a machine and it is kept in a machine room out of sight.

I didn't choose it as a lifestyle option and I don't expect it to make statements about who I am.

I built it myself from components bought online in 2002 - Yes, It's five years old now. It's a lowly AMD XP2000 [1600mhz] CPU in an ASUS A7-V 333 motherboard with 1gb of ram and a motley selection of Maxtor and WD hard drives. It has four very ancient Echo Gina 20 bit PCI soundcards [out of production in 1998] hanging out of the back.

Despite the fact that it doesn't run all that many plugins and isn't made of Titanium, I've recorded two very well received albums on it which have sold around 20,000 copies all told.

I will soon be building a new PC with two Core 2 Duo processors and 4gb of RAM and I fully expect to get change from £1000.

Hopefully that will keep me going for another five years...

fatrabbit
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Re: A question for all you mac users...

Post by fatrabbit » Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:23 pm

NorthernMonkey wrote:
Steve Christian wrote:
NorthernMonkey wrote:Why do mac users away babble on about their beloved macs? There's a lad at work here who never fucking shuts up about them. I mean really, what's so great about them? "They look better" - no they don't, they look like a throwback from the 80's; "They perform better" - no they don't, on a pound-by-pound (dollar-by-dollar) basis pc's/laptop's out-perform them; "They never crash" - bollocks, they crash just as much as a pc running XP; "They're built better" - for what exactly? I not gonna take it on a building site.

I've never once heard a decent argument that clearly states why macs are so much better (I think you're all just blinded by the supposed 'coolness factor') but feel free to try.
If you don't own one, don't work in Logic, Motion, Finalcut Pro, Soundtrack Pro, etc... then you'll just not get it. I went from sh%tty pc to Mac about a year and a half ago and never looked back. No more viruses, dll errors, Ableton freeze ups, Cubase lockups, this driver missing, that driver missing, windows resource issues, registry issues, spyware, bots, I could go on but there's no reason. The bottom line was that I spent as much time "tuning" my PC to try and make it go faster so I could maybe get one or two more tracks and a synth in my track mixer to having software that took advantage of multiple processors, a MUCH BETTER OS and better architecture. I can't speak to the Intel Macs, but I would not trade in my Dual 2.7 Ghz PowerPC for anything right now. It hasn't even so much as hiccuped....ever.
I spent a day in a studio with a mixing engineer a few weeks ago, he was demonstrating using Logic Pro on OSX - it crashed constantly throughout the day.
It's probably the cracked version of Logic he's using.

popslut
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Re: A question for all you mac users...

Post by popslut » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:24 pm

fatrabbit wrote:
NorthernMonkey wrote: I spent a day in a studio with a mixing engineer a few weeks ago, he was demonstrating using Logic Pro on OSX - it crashed constantly throughout the day.
It's probably the cracked version of Logic he's using.
It's probably just a badly setup computer.

TITBAG
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Post by TITBAG » Thu Jul 05, 2007 4:43 pm

osx is the clunkiest most laggy OS i have ever had the misfortune of trying to use

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