Monome 40h Kits

Mesmer · Post by **Mesmer** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:16 pm

tjwett wrote:i don't know enough about this to give any real advice, i just have my regular 40h. but i can say this; LISTEN TO TONE, he knows his shit.

-teej

LOL

LOL

makes me remember my first post.
-h

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:31 pm

Mesmer wrote:No am not: I clearly state that I am dealing with other-than-monome's keypad kit. You are not giving enough credit to the people engaged with this thing, young man.

Regarding diodes, I do not remember, but I know it's the ones that Brian suggests in the monome page .... wait a sec, here:1N4148. Seems I was monomed.

I think you already have the sparkfun PCB's, you tell me if it's okay to drill through it! In fact I already did. So far so good. I am wearing an airmask (what was that about freaking out people, LOL) ... my main concern with that and the dremmelling is the bad gasses; I expect that the materials PCBs are made of, might be very toxic to the respiratory system (I dunno, in fact).

This has become ritualistic for me. Get home after dinner, and hunch over the working table to get things done. I'm going to miss it. I hope this hacking works... I have never tried the M's keypads: I did not even suggest they are better or worse ... just made decisions based on the pictures: it seems their progress is towards the smaller with the 256, 64 and such ... makes me wonder.

Mr. Tone: what ever happened to that cool, cat-lady-companion sig pic? I sort of miss it. Whenever I address you, I imagin I am talking with that guy, and his cats... It's weird-funny.

-h

Cool, please understand that I'm trying to help people get into this, many of which have never tried this before so it's important to keep the information clear and relevant. You're basically talking about a project kind of related to the monome but the info you're posting won't help with the monome kits, it's misleading. If it's a monome kit thread, why talk about a completely different project? Do as you wish, I'm nobody to tell anyone what to post, it's an open forum. I guess at this point I feel responsible for hyping up the kit and I want people to be successful with it. It's a simple kit, unless people think they need to start drilling and putting the time you're putting into yours.

PCBs are just plastic, fiberglass actually, no real threat of fumes. I don't have the sparkfun PCBs, I think they're on backorder at this point. I'll start on my own in a few months, maybe a color version which the sparkfun PCB is more suited for. It lacks 'ghosting' diodes but you can get around that with a different LED driver, if it'll work in the system, blah blah, I'll figure that out later. I don't know what you're trying to do with drilling so I can't advise you. I personally would buy the right PCB for the right job, I like modifying stuff but sometimes the quick route is preferred.

That picture was of Bubbles and his kitties from the TV show 'Trailer Park Boys' a Canadian show that I love but isn't broadcasted in the US. They used to be on You Tube, very funny if you can find it.

Mesmer · Post by **Mesmer** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:52 pm

Cool, yea, I posted a "disclaimer" at the monome forum.
Cool I understand.

would wager that sparkfun keypad kit is relevant for _some_ monome projects, as the logic kit (which i did order) is the brains of the thing, and the other are it's limbs, or execution. There's been talk of building them with arcade buttons, and such, even someone (was it mikemc?) expressed they'd like the bigger buttons better, like me. But that's just an argument for argument's sake.

don't you remember, catman, you were advocating we purchase this very same sparkfun kits when the announcements where fresh?

Right tool for the right job, that's so true! I am only drilling because it's the only way I could undo the fill-ups and general blockage of passageways with solder for the mess that I did in the very beginning.

NO ONE NEEDS TO DRILL ANYTHING USING THE MONOME'S KIT.

cool pic, man. cool pic. I'll dab into the sitcom thing, if only from a distance, heaven forbid it's more like british sitcoms, and their english humour! (<------ flame bait, -5 points, mod me down ... i'll go down but I ain't laughing with that weird pacing). Oh world diversity is so enchanting, I love feeling part of a diverse world. Man it's been slow in work today.....am rambling...
-h

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:05 pm

Mesmer wrote:Cool, yea, I posted a "disclaimer" at the monome forum.
Cool I understand.

would wager that sparkfun keypad kit is relevant for _some_ monome projects, as the logic kit (which i did order) is the brains of the thing, and the other are it's limbs, or execution. There's been talk of building them with arcade buttons, and such, even someone (was it mikemc?) expressed they'd like the bigger buttons better, like me. But that's just an argument for argument's sake.

don't you remember, catman, you were advocating we purchase this very same sparkfun kits when the announcements where fresh?

Right tool for the right job, that's so true! I am only drilling because it's the only way I could undo the fill-ups and general blockage of passageways with solder for the mess that I did in the very beginning.

NO ONE NEEDS TO DRILL ANYTHING USING THE MONOME'S KIT.

cool pic, man. cool pic. I'll dab into the sitcom thing, if only from a distance, heaven forbid it's more like british sitcoms, and their english humour! (<------ flame bait, -5 points, mod me down ... i'll go down but I ain't laughing with that weird pacing). Oh world diversity is so enchanting, I love feeling part of a diverse world. Man it's been slow in work today.....am rambling...
-h

yes. when I started posting about all this it was when the kits were announced but they weren't as refined as they are now, I also took a week off of work so I had the time to make plans on making my own. the more I learned the more I realised tehn already did the work I started chipping away at.

congrats, you don't have to dremmel out the solder. I use this stuff
http://www.techspray.com/desolder.htm
here's a pic of other stuff, but you can see what it is

Go to your local electronics supply shop and ask for 'desoldering braid', man I have to give you props for the attention you're putting into your project.
it's some very fine copper wires braided together exactly like a candle wick. put that stuff over the solder to be removed, put the soldering iron on top of it, the solder melts and wicks into the copper braid, just like candle wax. if it doesn't work the first time add more solder and try again. it's ironic you need to add more solder to remove solder but it without it you don't get very good heat flow.

yeah, you could do a LOT with those kits. imagine this... take a dimmer kit like this one
http://www.apogeekits.com/light_dimmer.htm
(5V DC controls 120/240V AC)
tie 64 of those onto the button board instead of LEDs and you can control 64 lights of different colors, flood lights, whatever. replace the buttons with things people stomp on and you could have an interactive Saturday Night Fever dance floor.

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:25 am

Even though I dont yet have the LED's I just got antsy and soldered on the ribbon headers so I could play with the buttons.

I think it will still not be all that hard to get at the 4 LED contacts which are partially obstructed. Certainly will need to pre-cut the leads of those LED's but shouldn't be too hard to get the iron in there.

But I just wanted to note that the header thingys seem to need to be soldered at a slight angle, so that the caps on the end of the ribbon cables will clear the diodes.

I soldered with the cables on the headers and wedged at as much of an angle as the holes will allow (only results in about a 1/16" clearance between the diodes and the cable cap thing... not a drastic angle)

and with the header pins about flush with the solder side (sticking out on the cable side as much as possible)

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:26 am

This is fun. Could make me revisit the MIDIbox...

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:36 am

btw, do I understand correctly that each 40h can support 2 encoders?

(or 4 pots?)

but this would require flashing the firmware (?)

(trying to plan a plate, and wouldn't mind a few extra holes for future parts...)

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:46 am

longjohns wrote:btw, do I understand correctly that each 40h can support 2 encoders?

(or 4 pots?)

but this would require flashing the firmware (?)

(trying to plan a plate, and wouldn't mind a few extra holes for future parts...)

4 pots, 2 encoders, 2 accelerometers, no firmware change needed.

if you check the logic board schematic here:
http://wiki.monome.org/Attachment/40h_logic_schem.png
look at the top center for JA, J for jumper, A for analog. follow those lines back to the microcontroller, each one of those pins in JA are tied to a unique A/D pin on the micro. there are 4 analog inputs to play with.

they've added tutorials
encoders
http://wiki.monome.org/view/40hOpticalEncoderTutorial

pots
http://wiki.monome.org/view/40hAnalogKnobTutorial

accelerometer
http://wiki.monome.org/view/40hAccelerometerTutorial

encoders are more graceful than pots. I think I'll go with an encoder and an accelerometer.

I'm digging mlr, straightforward beat banging, fun interface.

oh, there's also IR distance sensors, I've used these before they act exactly like a pot
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/produc ... cts_id=242

and touch strips like that credit card controller video.

longjohns · Post by **longjohns** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:39 pm

Tone Deft wrote: no firmware change needed.

I dunno, are you sure?

On the encoder tutorial it specifically says you have to flash different firmware.

No flash for pots or sliders, but yes for encoders (?)

Mesmer · Post by **Mesmer** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:02 pm

longjohns wrote:
Tone Deft wrote: no firmware change needed.

I dunno, are you sure?

On the encoder tutorial it specifically says you have to flash different firmware.

No flash for pots or sliders, but yes for encoders (?)

Yes, I believe it's been stated a few times: 2 optical encoders or 4 analog (passive) sensors, no need for special anything, just plug and play.

I imagine some time ago it did need a firmw upgrade, now it doesn't; I did a quick search, to be sure, this is what I found:

Tehn, at monome.org wrote: check it out. lots of pictures.
we've also posted a new version of serialio to support the mod. note that the tutorial only adds one encoder, but there is supprt for two, in both the firmware upgrade and new serialio.

cheers!

taken from http://forum.monome.org/topic/314#1923

Mesmer · Post by **Mesmer** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:04 pm

Thanks Tone, BTW, for the Braid tip.
You can tell I don't do this often.
you've been very helpful, thanks.

I'll try to reciprocate ... "do unto others..." thing

-h

Mesmer · Post by **Mesmer** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:16 pm

I stand corrected,

I just read this from some other forum post:

<< you don't need a programmer to use the adc ports, only to reprogram the firmware with a different firmware (adc vs. encoders).>>

this is as fresh as july 06 2007, so it must be true.
This is subtly confusing, but this problem is two steps away from where I am right now ... so best of luck.

-h

itook4lefts · Post by **itook4lefts** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:20 pm

longjohns wrote:
Tone Deft wrote: no firmware change needed.

I dunno, are you sure?

On the encoder tutorial it specifically says you have to flash different firmware.

No flash for pots or sliders, but yes for encoders (?)

that was my understanding - you need different firmware for optical encoders, but not for pots (either knobs or sliders), or an accelerometer. knobs/sliders will work straight from the box. and i know for a fact an accel will, because i've done it.

edit: looks like me and mesmer posted at the same time

Mesmer · Post by **Mesmer** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:25 pm

cheers
-h

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:24 pm

good catch LJ, yes, you'd need to flash the micro (I can help with that if you get into a bind, I have 1 extra uC and a few different programmers)

from what I've seen encoders send two signals in quadrature, you turn the knob and the two signals put out square waves, you pick one signal (call it A) and tell the software to sample signal B when signal A has a rising edge. here's a pic from the usdigital web site (whose encoders the monomes recommend.)

Anyway, you don't want A/D converters to process that, you want a regular old digital input, err two of them.

Mesmer - you're a madman!!! Glad I can help, hardware is my strength, seems that software is yours, once the hardware builds are over it's all in the hands of you software guys.