Any tips for my live PA theater gig?

Sales Dude McBoob · Post by **Sales Dude McBoob** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:27 pm

Hey gang,

I got a side job running the sound for this show:

www.33tonothing.com

My roommate/studiomate actually scored the job, but she can only do 1/3 of the shows. I'm going to be running most of them. Neither of us have very extensive experience running sound in this setting.

There's a sound designer involved. Basically a guy who is helping us set up, and get the mixes in the digital console programmed (so we can recall effects and level settings for different parts of the show.) But that dude is outta there well before opening night.

The audio task is mainly mixing a live band. The idea behind the play is that it all takes place in a rehersal studio just as a band is about to break up. There's drama going on, but they pull it together to play songs throughout the show. So far the actors are all going to project their voices, so we don't have to deal with stage mics.

The challenge is mixing the band well, and making sure the f'in monitors don't feedback. Here are the logistics:

100 seat theatre
Unforgiving cinder block walls
2 nice sounding QSC powered speakers hung on rafters as mains
1 decent sounding smaller QSC speakrer hung in the middle to fill
3 stage monitors
3 vocalists
guitar
drums
bass
keyboard (Triton)
Yamaha 01V96 digital mixer
two hidden effects speakers (to cue cell phone rings)

There it is. I feel okay about it. I'm getting to know the board a bit.

All tips are welcome!
Thanks,
Sam

funky shit · Post by **funky shit** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:48 pm

Nice going getting the job and good luck man!

Sales Dude McBoob · Post by **Sales Dude McBoob** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:02 pm

funky shit wrote:Nice going getting the job and good luck man!

Thanks Funky Shit!

D K · Post by **D K** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:13 pm

i'd suggest using mics with a tight cardioid, ideally supercardioid pattern
to help with the feedback issue. this will mean the singers need to exercise good technique. that is really important...you should get together with them and really work on that and making things sound even before the pa comes into play.
watch the input gain, better to overcompensate on the output to keep a tight sound.
i'd borrow/use an rta and pink noise the room for the initial eq. same for the wedges..you can actually do this with plugs in live. ideally i'd use spectrafu or smart, though. if you find yourself over-eqing then i'd back down on the initial gainstage, or dynamics(like compression) if you are using them. if you have comps inserted on vox
and are running mains and montors, you can run into headroom issues with monitors.
one solution would be to buss vox to subgroups and compress there so that the monitor send remain uncompressed. with paralell walls in a small room,
you will most likely run into a few modes (huge frequency spikes) where the room resonates. find these and kill them on the main eq's. watch the low mids on the monitors so that you don't get a ton of mud coming from the backside of the wedges,
spilling out front. i'd also suggest using subgroups or mute groups for control of specifics...sound effects on one, vox on another, strings on another, percussion on another etc....i forget if that desk has subgroup capability.
have fun!
cheers

3dot... · Post by **3dot...** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:56 pm

01V is a very nice mixing desk...
I very much enjoyed working on one... (in a studio though)

buzzcock · Post by **buzzcock** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:57 pm

Do not overwhelm yourself with an overly complicated setup.

If you are running the playback cues and mixing the band at the same time, it can get hectic. Because it's a live performance unpredictable things can happen, so you need to stay flexable.

Keep it simple. Since it's the same instruments throughout the show you shouldn't need to do a whole lot of "mixing" per se. Just find a good balance in the rehersal and be comfortable tweaking when needed.

all the best!

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 3:15 pm

I love my 01V, People tend to poo-poo digital mixers, but once you learn how to fly around the menus, they are SO much more flexible than analog desks. The ability to have dynamics, EQ, effects, etc on every channel with no outboard gear, and to be able to save multiple configurations and recall them at a push of a button or via MIDI is fantastic.

I've still got an old 01V that has been used and abused for 8 years, and has never failed me. I'd love a new 01V/96. It's especially cool with the mLAN card, and includes plug-ins that eliminate the traditional too-squeaky-clean Yamaha digital sound. Sixteen 96kHz/24-bit audio ins and outs, and MIDI, all down a single Firewire cable. Using the 16 ins and outs to use the 01v's EQ, dynamics, and effects is a great way miminize the CPU hit during mixdowns in Live (or any DAW), too. And the moving faders and buttons are great for Live MIDI control.

The 01v/96's surround modes should help you out with the sound effects and cues.

Congrats on the gig!

Sales Dude McBoob · Post by **Sales Dude McBoob** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:01 pm

Thanks for the tips.

Have any of you ever used a computer to control a 01V96? We loaded up the software last night and it seems a little easier to navigate than the board itself. I've sort of urged that we learn the board first, then utilze the software later.

The sound designer arrives today so it's all up to him really.

We have to trigger a couple different cellphone rings to different speakers on the stage, so I'm going to suggest we use Live to do so. The thing is, I'm curious if anyone has run Live at the same time as running Yamaha's Studio Manager software on the same computer. The 01V96 connects via USB, and I think that port is only passing midi information. If I have my PowerBook hooked up with the 01V96 in the USB and my Ozonic hooked up via firewire to trigger the sound effects, is that gunna work? Is that the best way to go?

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:27 pm

I use the mixer itself without the Yamaha software (not sure it works with older 01Vs anyway), and use Live MIDI program changes to change 01V presets.

All audio passes down a single Firewire cable into the Mac. On the 01V/96, MIDI passes down the same Firewire cable, too (with the mLAN card installed).

I DJ in quadraphonic, and use the 01V's aux sends to feed the rear channel PA. I suppose you could do the same to send the cellphone rings. Use Live sends, or separate tracks, to feed the 01V's aux sends. Trigger the rings with an Ozonic key.

Sales Dude McBoob · Post by **Sales Dude McBoob** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:36 pm

We're using the 4 omni outs already. One is going to the subwoofer, two are going to monitors, the 4th one is being left empty for now, just in case we need to patch something else in. It will likely be used for another stage monitor. We're using the "monitor" outputs for the hanging center FOH fill speaker, and the master outs are going to the two main hanging speakers.

So there are no outs left for the effects speakers. There are two speakers hidden in two different places on the stage. I want to run Live using my Ozonic's outputs feeding into the snake to trigger the effects speakers. Hopefully the sound designer dude will be down with it.

Man... I took the ferry to work today and I feel really seasick

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:52 pm

I use all four omni outs and the monitor outputs, too. I wish I had more!

Master out feeds the FOH PA, two omni outs feed the mini DV recorder recording the gig, two omni outs feed the rear of room PA, the left side of the stereo monitor output feeds the visualizer, and the right side feeds my mono in-ear monitor.

If you're using mLAN to feed the 01V from your computer, you should be able to use your Ozonic audio outs independently. But if you're already using your Ozonic's four audio outs to feed the analog inputs on the 01V, you won't be able to use them for anything else.

mrvinyl · Post by **mrvinyl** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:20 am

I Like my O1V but to be honest it does sound 'digital' I much prefer taking my track to the studio i work in and mixing it on the allen & heath 32/8/2 much betta results

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 8:06 am

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Con ... 3D,00.html

I really want to upgrade my ancient 01V to a new 01V/96V2now.

Damn you to hell, SDMcB!

southernsteppa · Post by **southernsteppa** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 9:32 am

From my experience with theatre gigs, I have to agree with buzzcock - keep it simple.

Perhaps you could use foldbacks alone for the band to try and avoid feedback and swan around with your hands in the air saying "oh, it was a design choice!". 100 people isn't a massive audience and sound should travel fairly well in a theatre.

It's probably a bit late in the game, but this is a program a lot of large theatres around here use: http://cricketsound.com/

Sales Dude McBoob · Post by **Sales Dude McBoob** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 1:31 pm

Thanks for the links + tips.

The sound designer showed up on Friday and spent $6000 more of the production's money on gear. Among that heap of stuff was a Denon CD player, that I'm told to cue the sound effects with. So no Abe. Oh well. It's not my decsion to make.

He also bought another output card + snake for the 01V96, so we currently have 3 available omni outs. I feel spoiled now.

As far as keeping it simple? Yeah. That'd be nice. The designer is used to working in stadiums, so he went to town on the mix. I pretty much have my head wrapped around it. Pretty much. I think. I'll find out on Tuesday. They flew this guy in from LA for the weekend. We slaved all weekend to pull the system together, doing extensive sound checking, room tuning, routing, patching, etc etc etc. The guy flew back to LA on Sunday afternoon, just as we had to strike the set so lighting can install the lights (it's a new theatre) and the carpenters can build the stage (yeah, really new theatre.)

I have to show up tomorrow morning and rebuild the entire thing before a 2PM rehersal. Yeah.

So it goes.

So far I haven't been fired. So I guess it's going okay.