Guitarists-How are you using Live?

autodidactic · Post by **autodidactic** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 4:42 am

Hi folks. I play bouzouki and some guitar and was wondering how Live could be used on stage in a band or a solo performer situation. Also something else I need to know-I play Greek music so I do a lot of stuff in 9/8, 7/8 as well as the usual 4/4, 3/4. I had a copy somewhere of Live lite 4 that came with my Maudio firewire solo and I remember not being able to do it with that. Is this now possible in Live 6?

mikemc · Post by **mikemc** » Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:18 pm

I use live to play electric guitar over 7/4 and 5/4 grooves all the time. Just set the time signature to 7/4 set up my drum, bass and synth embellishments and have at it. Haven't tried x/8 or x/16 yet, however.

pbajzek · Post by **pbajzek** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:59 am

Live can play just about any meter you want- it just can't CHANGE them on the fly. You have to reach over and type in your new time signature manually. Not very gig-friendly.

But beyond that, I use Live as a complex mixer/effects rack for performing experimental solo guitar pieces. The routing, real-time control and plugin hosting make it a very powerful tool. I've replaced a whole rack of outboard geat with a laptop and interface.

fatrabbit · Post by **fatrabbit** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:35 am

I usually run the bass or guitar through something like Guitar Rig 2 (and/or maybe Ohmicide) and then have live-looping setup so that I can hit foot pedals on the Behringer FCB1010 and loop stuff. That's more for a live situation, it's also great to use the above to generate sound and then chuck it in Sampler or whatever and transform it into something else.

FORMAT · Post by **FORMAT** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:58 pm

pbajzek wrote:Live can play just about any meter you want- it just can't CHANGE them on the fly. You have to reach over and type in your new time signature manually. Not very gig-friendly.

But beyond that, I use Live as a complex mixer/effects rack for performing experimental solo guitar pieces. The routing, real-time control and plugin hosting make it a very powerful tool. I've replaced a whole rack of outboard geat with a laptop and interface.

Interesting... would love to hear about the routing in your setup.

Myself, I'm into stompboxes and and tube amps, old school style.
My pedalboard can be viewed (at least in part) at my virb site
www.virb.com/encym

R.

autodidactic · Post by **autodidactic** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:34 pm

That's really awesome guys! I downloaded Live Lite 6 and am just trying to figure out a workflow with Live Lite then if I can do what I need to I'll get the full version. I'm just starting to go through the lessons to get aquainted with Live. Maybe you guys can tell me if what I want to do is possible with Live.

In Greek music there are songs that follow forms but when it comes time for a solo it goes free form. Solos are very modal and free. The band will follow the soloist and change chords but they take their cue from what the soloist is playing. It's by ear and almost never preplanned. So what I want to do is have a track that will follow a strict arrangement but when it gets to a certain point (instrumental solo) kick into cycle mode. Once in cycle mode I'd like to freely trigger different prerecorded loops (different chords based on the scale I'm improvising form) with a foot pedal. Once the solo is done, end the cycle and finish the rest of the arrangement. Is this possible and are any of you doing things this way?

Thanks for your input guys. You're awesome!

gabster · Post by **gabster** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:56 pm

The band will follow the soloist and change chords but they take their cue from what the soloist is playing. It's by ear and almost never preplanned.

Whoa. This is wild! How can they be so quick to apply chords on the fly to whatever melody the soloist is doing? They must be outstanding musicians!

So what I want to do is have a track that will follow a strict arrangement but when it gets to a certain point (instrumental solo) kick into cycle mode. Once in cycle mode I'd like to freely trigger different prerecorded loops (different chords based on the scale I'm improvising form) with a foot pedal. Once the solo is done, end the cycle and finish the rest of the arrangement. Is this possible and are any of you doing things this way?

If what I understand by "cycle mode" is correct (meaning that there the arrangement is not playing at this time) then you can definitely trigger pre-recorded loops although I believe they will play at the current tempo setting, unless you un-warp them (meaning that they are wav-files that are stretched by Live to the current tempo).Am I making this over complicated?

Hope this helps.

I love playing in 7/8 and 9/8 time signature too. Romanian folk music or mainly horas from the Balkans are danced in that meter. The funny thing is when you aks those musicians about the meter, they have NO CLUE. Instead they will tell show you how it is danced! [me Romanian am

]

Gabi.

autodidactic · Post by **autodidactic** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:51 pm

gabster wrote: I love playing in 7/8 and 9/8 time signature too. Romanian folk music or mainly horas from the Balkans are danced in that meter. The funny thing is when you aks those musicians about the meter, they have NO CLUE. Instead they will tell show you how it is danced! [me Romanian am ]

Gabi.

Off Topic-That's cool that you're Romanian Gabi. My mom's side of the family is Hungarian and judging by your first name your people must be from Transylvania (former Hungarian province now part of Romania). That's really cool man. I lived in Budapest for a few years and got to play with some rreally talented musicians. You haven't lived until you've played with a real good cimbalom player. For those of you that don't know what the hell a cimbalom is check this shit out:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NNZbyX3YlrQ

Playing with guys of that calibre really makes you rethink what the limitations of an acoustic instrument are. I learned from these guys that things that may seem impossible now are attainable through a religious dedication to your instrument and a lot of hard work over a long period of time. I'm still trying to get in the ballpark but I'm hoping eventually I'll get there.

gabster wrote:
If what I understand by "cycle mode" is correct (meaning that there the arrangement is not playing at this time) then you can definitely trigger pre-recorded loops although I believe they will play at the current tempo setting, unless you un-warp them (meaning that they are wav-files that are stretched by Live to the current tempo).Am I making this over complicated?

Hope this helps.

Sorry man, cycle mode is a Logic term. I should have used "Loop Switch" instead. Let me repost the scenario again with the proper terminology.

"So what I want to do is have a track that will follow a strict arrangement but when it gets to a certain point (instrumental solo) turn on the loop switch. Once the loop switch is enabled, I'd like to freely trigger different prerecorded loops (different chords based on the scale I'm improvising form) with a foot pedal. Once the solo is done,disable the loop switch and finish the rest of the arrangement. Is this possible and are any of you doing things this way?"

pbajzek · Post by **pbajzek** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:36 pm

FORMAT wrote:
pbajzek wrote:But beyond that, I use Live as a complex mixer/effects rack for performing experimental solo guitar pieces. The routing, real-time control and plugin hosting make it a very powerful tool. I've replaced a whole rack of outboard geat with a laptop and interface.
Interesting... would love to hear about the routing in your setup.

Myself, I'm into stompboxes and and tube amps, old school style.
My pedalboard can be viewed (at least in part) at my virb site
www.virb.com/encym

R.

I have an input channel with a rack containing Guitar Rig 2 and some other effects (separate chains for some sounds I just can't get from GR2).

Then I send to a rack containing 4 looping delays, each on its own track and with its own effects, to the delayed signals don't all sound the same as the live playing. The delays are synched together, but at different lengths, and their inputs and feedbackare controlled by footswitches. I'm treating the guitar as sort of a synth to create droning polyrhythmic textures (many samples if you click my sig.). Live has so many possibilities for doing this sort of thing, it's hard to avoid option paralysis.

Many thanks to the Greek and Romanian folk musicians here for demonstrating that the world outside of 4/4 is not limited to prog rock.

bigbadotis · Post by **bigbadotis** » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:56 pm

http://youtube.com/watch?v=NNZbyX3YlrQ

Thanks for that clip... pretty amazing.

FORMAT · Post by **FORMAT** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:33 am

pbajzek wrote:
FORMAT wrote:
pbajzek wrote:But beyond that, I use Live as a complex mixer/effects rack for performing experimental solo guitar pieces. The routing, real-time control and plugin hosting make it a very powerful tool. I've replaced a whole rack of outboard geat with a laptop and interface.
Interesting... would love to hear about the routing in your setup.

Myself, I'm into stompboxes and and tube amps, old school style.
My pedalboard can be viewed (at least in part) at my virb site
www.virb.com/encym

R.
I have an input channel with a rack containing Guitar Rig 2 and some other effects (separate chains for some sounds I just can't get from GR2).

Then I send to a rack containing 4 looping delays, each on its own track and with its own effects, to the delayed signals don't all sound the same as the live playing. The delays are synched together, but at different lengths, and their inputs and feedbackare controlled by footswitches. I'm treating the guitar as sort of a synth to create droning polyrhythmic textures (many samples if you click my sig.). Live has so many possibilities for doing this sort of thing, it's hard to avoid option paralysis.

Many thanks to the Greek and Romanian folk musicians here for demonstrating that the world outside of 4/4 is not limited to prog rock.

Thanks, great sounds!!

R.

Homebelly · Post by **Homebelly** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:44 am

Hay pbajzek.
are your tracks available for down load any where?
your play list gives me the option, but for some reason it doesn't seem to be working on my mac unless i upgrade to quicktime pro,,,

Very cool sounds,,,

pbajzek · Post by **pbajzek** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:18 pm

Thanks, Format! Homebelly, I just control-click to download; I didn't realize this was a QT Pro feature (I'm on a mac as well). I don't have my songs up anywhere else- I *thought* they would be downloadable by everyone. Hmm... Thanks for the heads-up, maybe I can find a way to change this.

studiesinsound · Post by **studiesinsound** » Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:51 pm

I find live very versatile for guitar
I play electric and acoustic.
All of the delay modules are nice for different things.

For a interesting effect use 2 different delays
Like a simple delay into a filter delay
or the other way around
stuff like that, you can really just mess with the fx in ableton alot and get an endless array of sounds. If you have a midi controller with knobs and sliders and buttons, you can have good real time controll of these fx.

Right now I use it with a couple of sooper looper plugins controlled by my fcb1010 pedal and it's a much more powerful looper than any of the hardware ones on the market.
(though alot more expensive when you factor in computer, ableton and fcb1010 costs)(sooper looper is free)

I was using it as a guitar fx processor until I got a Digitech RP350 (awesome)
My computer sucks so it wasn;t good for live preformance as an fx processor, maybe if I had a better computer.
For home use though I got some crazy noise out of the thing. All with the headphones on and the family asleep in the next room

One way to get a different sound is put a few resonators and delay effects in your signal chain.
Tweak the resonators the right way and you get some real spooky full sounds.

One benefit of using ableton as an fx processor is based on your routing, you can retain your clean signal so if you liked the recording but decided you know what, that compressor just isn't right, change it. or come back and do an unplugged remix.
Not so with using the rp350.

I found it very good for passable guitar sounds with guitar plugged straight in to the computer and add saturator, reverb etc.

but now thet I have the hardware fx processor, I primarily use ableton for looping using the sooper looper plugin.