logic 7

lesterdiamond · Post by **lesterdiamond** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:20 pm

how are the synths that come included with logic and the bundled plugins..something like 80 plugins

As far as I know they do have a sidechaining compressor

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:31 pm

I'm being stupid here, but ...

Logic 7 $999

Ableton 6 $499

I hear the concensus is that the summing engine in Logic 7 isn't as good as Live's.
Although I may have that wrong.

Homebelly · Post by **Homebelly** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:16 am

I use both Logic and Live,, although i've been more into using live the last couple of months, as i have been learning my way through it.
I wouldn't say one is better than the other,, they are different animals in a lot of ways, that work very well next to one and other.
the included plugs in logic are very cool,, on their own they don't seem to offer very much, but if you think of logic as a flexible modular environment and use all of the plugs in tandem they work very well to create some very cool sounds and textures.
The synths are all very cool,, both the ES synths can produce some very cool sounds and have a very cool, but unobtrucive, vibe to them,,
Sculture in the shit as far as physical modeling goes,,
EXS is a very nice sampler,, a lot of people pass this one by, or compare it to KONTAKT as it is, but with out exploring the modulation and plugin options,,
I love the logic compressors,, very simple to use and they have a very neutral quality that doesn't color the original sound of the in put.
the channel EQ is very cool for cutting sounds,, but it seems to add a slight distortion when boosting,, maybe thats just me,, but again,, when used along side all the other LOGIC plugs it works great,,
the delays are all very cool and can produce some very nice ambiances,, using them on a buss and paralleled, or stacking them up as inserts can build up some very cool polyrhythmic textures,, and when used with the filters and distortions your in Dub heaven,,
the reverbs are cool as inserts and are also very friendly on the CPU,,
space designer is one of my favorite things,, again, a lot of people pass it by thinking it lacks features,, but you can filter and eq it up the ya-ya with the other plugs,,,
I'm also a big fan of the included apple plugs,, especially the reverb,, if your on a mac and have live already and havent tried the apple AU's,, give them a shot right now.

About the only aspects of logics plug ins i don't use are the drum machine and the FM synth as i am all over BATTERY and FM7/8,, Ultrabeat has some very cool features,, but i'm so used to using battery and reaktor that i haven't given it much time,,

The thing with the logic plugs is they don't look all that flash,, and they don't sound to exciting by them selves,, but,, if you use them all together they are easily as good as any of the third party plugs, and they work very well together to create a nice and balanced sound.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:04 am

Logic 7 is cool, I think if you want to stay focused in on writing though it's best to just learn one DAW, and go with plug ins and other methods of getting the results you want.
I started in Digital Performer, moved to Logic, and bought Live 3 as a performance tool; now with Live 6, I would say Live can cover 85% of what I need. Most of the remainder is due to Logic being close to 20 years old, and having some really streamlined workflow ideas. Live is about 5 years old or so, and is looking to be as streamlined in the next few updates.
The plug ins are nice, but having jumped around to different sequencers over the years, I have to say that VST/AU plug ins are much more convenient. Sure Logic saves samples with projects, and the included plug in bundle would cost a small fortune to put together, but in some ways it's pretty cool to pick and choose plug ins you need and in many cases get a more interesting plug in etc.

I bought Komplete 2 around the time I bought Live and in many ways Komplete 4 now, and Live 6 are a better combination than Logic with its plug ins.
Though I really like certain things about Logic, I would recommend getting a bundle like Komplete and with Reactor FX you're pretty set!

NewSc2 · Post by **NewSc2** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:18 am

You should check out Logic's site on apple.com.

Logic's included plugins are very, very good. Maybe not on par with Waves, NI, etc., but it's a great value for anything you'd ever need. Several types of synths (a few VA's, an FM, sampler, electric keyboard, string emulator, drum machine), a decent package of included sample instruments, several reverbs (one's a convolution reverb), compressors, delays, distortion, guitar/bass amp emulator, etc. Other than Logic's included plugins I use VintageWarmer and imposcar to add some depth to my shitty songs, and i have some external synths that i use too.

So to sum up -- I use both Logic and Live -- Logic for production and Live for performance.

EDIT: I agree with some of the above poster's comments. I wish Logic's plugins were AU, and not proprietary to Logic. If I wanted to invest in more plugins I might fully switch to Live but I'm pretty used to Logic's workflow and Arrange mode in Live kinda sucks.

kineticUk · Post by **kineticUk** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:25 am

Machinesworking wrote:Logic 7 is cool, I think if you want to stay focused in on writing though it's best to just learn one DAW, and go with plug ins and other methods of getting the results you want.

I agree. I use Live, Cubase (which was my first proper midi/audio seq). I like the apple plugs.
Never really had a proper play with Logic and its plugs, only the fx inside Soundtrack (Nice). The rest looks good though.
Its all good if you ask me. Quality bottom line. And Two is company, etc.
I like something about those other programs when it comes to actually sequencing a tune, I'm into the tools too. Not feelin Live in arrangement (Maybe I need to practice more or something)

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:26 am

NewSc2 wrote: I'm pretty used to Logic's workflow and Arrange mode in Live kinda sucks.

The Arrange in Logic is what keeps me there. FYI if you have a mouse with a few buttons, what I do is assign the toolkit to the button on my scroll wheel, so it opens as float wherever the mouse is, and I assign the rigtht click to the magnifying glass. This makes navigating the Arrange page in Logic brutally fast!

Actually I would switch 100% to Live if Live had this kind of arrangement navigation. It's my main gripe, along with the piano roll editor pretty much needing it's own page.

evernaut · Post by **evernaut** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 1:39 am

All great points...and it's good to hear everyone's take on DAWs knowing that Live is probably playing a large role in the evaluation mix.

I don't have Protools at the mo, but if I did I'd say that PT plus Live would probably be my ideal combo. But I'd happily play with DP or Cubase as a close second.

And WaveEditor for dessert

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 3:16 am

Logic's plug ins are very good, especially the synths. That said, I was pretty unimpressed with 7.2.3 overall. It definitely lags behind a lot of the other DAWs out right now, and did not at all have that 'apple-like' speed and ease of use. Stability was an issue for me too, I ran into a lot of bugs and headscratcher in the 3-4 months I used it recently. Eventually I got sick of the BS, and went back to Live. here's to hoping Apple really pulls off a nice redesign with Logic 8, it's got potential, it just badly needs an update.

IMVHO.

NewSc2 · Post by **NewSc2** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:19 am

Tarekith wrote:Logic's plug ins are very good, especially the synths. That said, I was pretty unimpressed with 7.2.3 overall. It definitely lags behind a lot of the other DAWs out right now, and did not at all have that 'apple-like' speed and ease of use. Stability was an issue for me too, I ran into a lot of bugs and headscratcher in the 3-4 months I used it recently. Eventually I got sick of the BS, and went back to Live. here's to hoping Apple really pulls off a nice redesign with Logic 8, it's got potential, it just badly needs an update.

IMVHO.

ease of use was an issue when i first delved into logic. didn't know how to do anything, whereas garageband was so straightforward. then i bought the macprovideo tutorials and just from the 101 alone logic suddenly became almost as easy as live. in fact, i find logic easier to use than live in many places. except for performance.

Machinesworking · Post by **Machinesworking** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:01 am

Tarekith wrote: It definitely lags behind a lot of the other DAWs out right now, and did not at all have that 'apple-like' speed and ease of use. Stability was an issue for me too, I ran into a lot of bugs and headscratcher in the 3-4 months I used it recently. Eventually I got sick of the BS, and went back to Live. here's to hoping Apple really pulls off a nice redesign with Logic 8, it's got potential, it just badly needs an update.

IMVHO.

Actually to me Apple have screwed up Logic's workflow. I seriously don't think Emagic would have made any track you hide in the Arrange disappear by default in the Track mixer, that's Apple's "ease of use" getting in the way of logical workflow.
Any track you want to have in the Track Mixer must be in the Arrange, even if you have no use for it in the Arrange, therefore hiding ttracks you have no use to see in the Arrange like busses, and Aux's etc. makes sense, but Apple can't have anything too complex for Joe Six Pack...... so those tracks hidden disappear in the Track mixer....

My feelings are I hope Apple keep their paws out of Logic, and allow them to grow the old functions into something useful.

eyeknow · Post by **eyeknow** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 8:47 am

Tarekith wrote:Logic's plug ins are very good, especially the synths. That said, I was pretty unimpressed with 7.2.3 overall. It definitely lags behind a lot of the other DAWs out right now, and did not at all have that 'apple-like' speed and ease of use. Stability was an issue for me too, I ran into a lot of bugs and headscratcher in the 3-4 months I used it recently. Eventually I got sick of the BS, and went back to Live. here's to hoping Apple really pulls off a nice redesign with Logic 8, it's got potential, it just badly needs an update.

IMVHO.

yeah, but the price you got it at..........

monoschall · Post by **monoschall** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 9:54 am

Logic Pro is in *desperate* need of a complete overhaul. Logic Pro (7) is not yet a proper Apple App (uncool UI in comparison to Final Cut Pro or Aperture) - it's still got loads of emagic baggage attached, like the countless menus/sub-menus. A simplified version, would make it a much more powerful and creative tool.

It's also well overpriced (which the included content probably tries to address):

Logic Pro $999 (Including Logic Pro, Waveburner, Apple Loop Content)

Final Cut Studio 2 $1,299.00 (including Final Cut Pro 6, Motion 3,Soundtrack Pro 2, Color, Compressor 3 and DVD Studio Pro 4!!!!)

Come to think of it - Logic Pro is a bit of a rip off!!

I hardly use Logic anymore in fact 'cos making music in live is much more fluid and getting creative is much easier - one example: moving automation data around in Logic is a nightmare compared to Live.

The plugins in Logic are what make it really great and Logic *is much more* stable than Live! I wish the Logic plugins could all be decoupled and recompiled into audio units (but would still be dongle protected) - those + live = immensely cool!!!

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:33 pm

eyeknow wrote:
Tarekith wrote:Logic's plug ins are very good, especially the synths. That said, I was pretty unimpressed with 7.2.3 overall. It definitely lags behind a lot of the other DAWs out right now, and did not at all have that 'apple-like' speed and ease of use. Stability was an issue for me too, I ran into a lot of bugs and headscratcher in the 3-4 months I used it recently. Eventually I got sick of the BS, and went back to Live. here's to hoping Apple really pulls off a nice redesign with Logic 8, it's got potential, it just badly needs an update.

IMVHO.
yeah, but the price you got it at..........

Dude, I know, very glad about that.

To the previous replies: I too got the macprovideo's, and had a very fast and fluid workflow in place. It's just that audio editing in Logic is archaic compared to almost all other DAWs (except Live). The need to open a seperate window to do any sample accurate editing is a real pain if you're an edit freak like me. Feasible and not hard to get used to, but much slower than the competition lately.

I'm not knocking Logic at all, it's great app. It just needs to be updated badly by now. I think a lot of the Logic fanboys just haven't used any other DAWs in so long (not surrprising since most aren't availabel for OSX), they don't realize how much more fluid the alternatives are right now.

If Apple ever brings it into the 21st century, I'd gladly start using it again.

Homebelly · Post by **Homebelly** » Sat Aug 04, 2007 12:56 pm

Tarekith wrote: I think a lot of the Logic fanboys just haven't used any other DAWs in so long (not surrprising since most aren't availabel for OSX), they don't realize how much more fluid the alternatives are right now.

Id be interested to know what other DAW's you are basing this statement on,,