Mixdown tutorial

pixelbox · Post by **pixelbox** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:30 pm

beats me wrote:Admittedly my ears are probably shot, but still to this day whether it's at a studio or watching these videos (with less than ideal sound) half the time when they do some tweaking and then go "Let's hear it with and without. Hear the difference?" and I sit there and go "um, no." Not with everything, but often enough to be frustrating.

This goes hand in hand with the advice of "If you can hear the effect then it's too much". Er, ok. Thanks.

I have the same problem, but hey, what can we expect? We're listening to it over the inter-tubes...it's going to sound like ass no matter what.

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Tue Aug 07, 2007 8:30 pm

but he's british...he inherently sounds pompous and more intelligent than us fat americans

rsagevik · Post by **rsagevik** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:35 am

hmm I had trouble with the flash as well on my mbook pro.. after half the movie
the screen went white.. audio only.

PurpleHaze · Post by **PurpleHaze** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:42 am

nice video, but is it me but did the track sound not that great after the limiter was put on. but nice video.

hacktheplanet · Post by **hacktheplanet** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:14 am

Goddamnit.
So I guess PTHD is the answer. Ugh.

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 9:05 am

pixelbox wrote:
beats me wrote:Admittedly my ears are probably shot, but still to this day whether it's at a studio or watching these videos (with less than ideal sound) half the time when they do some tweaking and then go "Let's hear it with and without. Hear the difference?" and I sit there and go "um, no." Not with everything, but often enough to be frustrating.

This goes hand in hand with the advice of "If you can hear the effect then it's too much". Er, ok. Thanks.
I have the same problem, but hey, what can we expect? We're listening to it over the inter-tubes...it's going to sound like ass no matter what.

except for light compression, most of what they do is audile, even on the interwebs.

what monitors do u guys use? not all subtleties are reflected in all monitors

beats me · Post by **beats me** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:22 pm

sweetjesus wrote:
pixelbox wrote:
beats me wrote:Admittedly my ears are probably shot, but still to this day whether it's at a studio or watching these videos (with less than ideal sound) half the time when they do some tweaking and then go "Let's hear it with and without. Hear the difference?" and I sit there and go "um, no." Not with everything, but often enough to be frustrating.

This goes hand in hand with the advice of "If you can hear the effect then it's too much". Er, ok. Thanks.
I have the same problem, but hey, what can we expect? We're listening to it over the inter-tubes...it's going to sound like ass no matter what.
except for light compression, most of what they do is audile, even on the interwebs.

what monitors do u guys use? not all subtleties are reflected in all monitors

This was more of a blanket statement from the first day I started working on music. So it's not so much the monitors because there would be too many to list. Aside from slight compression, "if you can hear the effect it is too much" can also be applied to reverb in some cases.

I know some people apply reverb to everything and anything and it sounds great and it's perfectly ok to hear and know the reverb is there. A lot of times when I use reverb it's like way obvious and ends up hurting the song more than helping.

sweetjesus · Post by **sweetjesus** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:39 pm

beats me wrote:
sweetjesus wrote:
pixelbox wrote: I have the same problem, but hey, what can we expect? We're listening to it over the inter-tubes...it's going to sound like ass no matter what.
except for light compression, most of what they do is audile, even on the interwebs.

what monitors do u guys use? not all subtleties are reflected in all monitors
This was more of a blanket statement from the first day I started working on music. So it's not so much the monitors because there would be too many to list. Aside from slight compression, "if you can hear the effect it is too much" can also be applied to reverb in some cases.

I know some people apply reverb to everything and anything and it sounds great and it's perfectly ok to hear and know the reverb is there. A lot of times when I use reverb it's like way obvious and ends up hurting the song more than helping.

well theres so many applications for reverb.

for a proper 3d mix, different elements should sit in different reverbs of different lengths/spatial qualities.

for a lot of the more deep groove orientated music these days, i hear reverb used on the master and after trying myself i can assure you that if you get it tight (right) you can add a kind of depth to the production not possible without it.

then there's reverb as an effect. in this case you wanna hear it, but if your point is to use reverb as a way of placing something in the right ambience then yeah sure you dont wanna hear it.

the whole point of that video to me was, without all those very subtle things it still sounds like a cool beat but taking care of all those tiny little details and doing it properly with intent is what seperates the beats from the releases.

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:55 pm

agreed with the above comments...a good mix is all about subtle and minute changes. Notice how when he raises his fader levels, he often just goes up and down over and over, just nudging it ever so slightly...this is just out of habit, and the mainly, this is how to do a good mix...go easy, go slow, and don't be drastic.

As for reverb...there are lots of uses for it. I agree that it's great for spacial placement. It's also good for gluing a mix together...remember that reverb tends to put a track deeper into the mix, whereas compression tends to bring a track/sound out of the mix. I also use reverb for extreme drama...so in my last remix, I put a heavy supersaw trance sound from Sylenth1 through a deep reverb, and I automated the send...it starts off in your face and dry and over four measures, it turns all soupy and wet. If done on purpose, a good reverb doesn't have to sound muddy and can have some nice effects.

beats me · Post by **beats me** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:15 am

I wasn't throwing mud at the video and I do think it was pretty good, although a lot of these videos start with a 5-10 minute duh factor. I also find it more informative and inspiring watching videos like these, or even better, people in person working on music. Reading about technique doesn't quite sink in for me, especially when it starts reading like a math word problem "If the bass leaves the station at 20 db with an approach rate of 44 hertz then the ratio should be 2:1 to keep the phase cancelation from colliding with the the upper frequency range response when using a fast attack." Right. Sounds good.

Mainly I probably just need to spend more time with the post production side of music. I sometimes rush things to get it out to the 5-10 people that might actually be listening to it. Silly, I know. It's also an environment issue. Too many people/distractions around where I can't think and concentrate straight. I really hate fitting music into my schedule..or around other people's schedule, don't we all.

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:29 am

I think you make a couple of really good points....when I develop songs, I take a while...squeezing in time when inspiration comes. However, when it's ready for the final push, I prep a bit. I make sure I haven't gone to a club or loud venue for a couple of days, I make sure I don't listen to headphones too loud, what not. I then spend about 4-6 hours on the final session. Any less, and I'm not "in the zone" and any more and I'm too fatigued to be accurate. I also kick the wife and kid outta the house for those house. In the end everyone's happy.

beats me · Post by **beats me** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:33 am

A couple other points.

Possibly a bad habit but I tend to mix as I go. Too many times I have dropped all the levels to zero and started from scratch so to speak only to realize I had it pretty close in the beginning and the new version is a mess. Of course the obvious solution to that is just saving multiple copies. I'm making note of that now. I guess I still sometimes think old school where there was no automation or saving settings. You just wrote everything on a piece of paper and hoped for the best next time you fired up the studio.

Second point. That's all well and good when the song is basic and you are maybe playing with 6 - 8 tracks and 4 or 5 of those are just drums. But when you are dealing with 20 to 30 tracks (or more) then things get a little sticky, especially when you can't view all the tracks on the screen at once. It doesn't take too long or too much effort before you run out of headroom on some tracks and you are screwed. Hey! Is there a way to turn a bunch of tracks down relative to each other? I would really appreciate something like that.

nebulae · Post by **nebulae** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:38 am

Regarding your second point, I usually have submix tracks. I tend to have Drums, Bass, Guitar, Synths-Mid, and Synths-High, and Vox as subchannels. I then route all the appropriate tracks into those channels and then I can do various submixes as I mix.

For organization (since we don't have folder tracks yet), I tend to make the track width for all drums slightly narrow, and the submix channel right after the drums a little fatter. Helps when I get 50 tracks going and I need to scroll around looking for the track that needs adjustment.

Pollyrythm · Post by **Pollyrythm** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:54 am

Hey, just another out of the box lurker here....

Are there anymore of these videos floating around? Happy to pay.

Thanks

beats me · Post by **beats me** » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:30 pm

nebulae wrote:Regarding your second point, I usually have submix tracks. I tend to have Drums, Bass, Guitar, Synths-Mid, and Synths-High, and Vox as subchannels. I then route all the appropriate tracks into those channels and then I can do various submixes as I mix.

For organization (since we don't have folder tracks yet), I tend to make the track width for all drums slightly narrow, and the submix channel right after the drums a little fatter. Helps when I get 50 tracks going and I need to scroll around looking for the track that needs adjustment.

That's a pretty damn good idea. I haven't learned anything useful on this board in weeks, although have been entertained. Then you came back to the board and days later I'm learning again. Nice one....but I guess this means summer is over already.