Don't think I would've bothered with Ableton if I'd known...

[Splosion Right]

Hi there

Please spare me certain death for strolling on in here and asking what is probably the most overasked, idiotic question that sees noobs fried on a regular basis in vats of verbal spite.... but what the hell is all this warping business all about?

Before I spend hours getting to grips with this frustrating process, I just wanted to be clear on something: if Ableton can change the tempo of a track, can't you just play track one at the master tempo and then adjust the bpm of track two before you mix it in? Say you play a record at 130bpm - surely you just set the next one to start at 130bpm and then cue it in with a marker?

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?



Thank you.

[snakedogman]

basically you warp the tracks you want to play beforehand, meaning that you tell ableton what the track's original tempo is (or rather, where all the beats are) by adjusting the grid in the clip view. (how to do this exactly is explained in various ways in loads of threads already). Once you've got the grid and markers lined up, click "save" in the clip view and the warp info will be stored in a seperate .asd file. (If you forget this your warp settings won't be stored!)
Ableton will always play everything at the master tempo and will then adjust the tracks accordingly.

[pixelbox]

yeah...you are being very limited in your thinking. Warping enables you to do many things than just mere beat-matching. Hell, if you wanted to, you could have 6 measures of your 130 bpm recording matched and synced to 4 eight note beats of one measure of your other recording, and it would all be at the original pitch. The options are limitless.

You can correct sloppy playing

You can stretch or reduce time in a recording without changing pitch

You can beat-match

etc, etc, etc

[chrysalis33rpm]

Its not beat-matching.

If you want to beat match, get something else.

Its the next step in many ways...

[Splosion Right]

Well this is all just lovely and I appreciate that Ableton has limitless possibilities but it does seem a little disappointing that a computer can match two bpms without me having to tell it where the beats are. It also means, especially if you don't play house which seems to warp alright, that you have to spend hours preparing a set of music. I already spent hours finding the music. And i'm going to spend hours playing it. Who has time to spend hours telling a computer how to do maths?

I know I'm being a bit silly, but it does all seem very disappointing. I'm sure I'll get over it.

[pixelbox]

Its not beat-matching.

If you want to beat match, get something else.

Its the next step in many ways...

+1

...right. that's what I'm trying to say.

[pixelbox]

Well this is all just lovely and I appreciate that Ableton has limitless possibilities but it does seem a little disappointing that a computer can match two bpms without me having to tell it where the beats are. It also means, especially if you don't play house which seems to warp alright, that you have to spend hours preparing a set of music. I already spent hours finding the music. And i'm going to spend hours playing it. Who has time to spend hours telling a computer how to do maths?

I know I'm being a bit silly, but it does all seem very disappointing. I'm sure I'll get over it.

The thing you don't seem to understand about this though, is that not letting the computer "auto-magically" guess and figure things out for you, you make the tool much more flexible and limitless....ie: more powerfull.

You are just going to have to spend the time learning the software like everybody else. You won't be sorry you did.

[Michael-SW]

As said above, if you only want to beat match you would be better off with two CD players, Tractor or old fashioned vinyl.

I've use Live for my music production and for playing my music live. I would guess most people use Live for that. Some use it for DJ-ing, but then you need to think further than just "spin beat matched records" to get the benefits.

[Spindrift]

Well this is all just lovely and I appreciate that Ableton has limitless possibilities but it does seem a little disappointing that a computer can match two bpms without me having to tell it where the beats are. It also means, especially if you don't play house which seems to warp alright, that you have to spend hours preparing a set of music. I already spent hours finding the music. And i'm going to spend hours playing it. Who has time to spend hours telling a computer how to do maths?

I know I'm being a bit silly, but it does all seem very disappointing. I'm sure I'll get over it.

Then use Traktor and it's instant sync.
After having that screwing up on you a few times during a set, you'll either learn to use their "beat grid" to prepare your tracks or come back to Live.

Spending a minute per track is a very worthwhile to not have to worry about if your automated matching will cause you a train wreck.

[chrysalis33rpm]

Well this is all just lovely and I appreciate that Ableton has limitless possibilities but it does seem a little disappointing that a computer can match two bpms without me having to tell it where the beats are. It also means, especially if you don't play house which seems to warp alright, that you have to spend hours preparing a set of music. I already spent hours finding the music. And i'm going to spend hours playing it. Who has time to spend hours telling a computer how to do maths?

I know I'm being a bit silly, but it does all seem very disappointing. I'm sure I'll get over it.

Well, fine, go play with something else

Look, if you want to mix your mp3s like you mix vinyl, there are programs out there to do that, why don't you get one?

Live is different. Live makes simple beat matching very easy, with a little preparation. But that, in and of itself, removes the focus on a TECHNICAL skill, and gives room to maneuver.

The debate about whether or not this is a good thing is a lot like the debate which took place when the camera replaced painting. People were deathly afraid that this ancient art was being sidelined. But what happened? Painting changed dramatically as a result of the camera- but it didn't disappear. In fact, we could argue that painting TECHNICALLY improved as a result of this new technology (photorealistic painting is a development after the camera).

So, if its not your thing, move on. But haven't you ever wanted to blur the line between DJ and live producer/remixer all-around-sound-system?

[Tone Deft]

I think it's sad that people have gotten to the point that they expect the computer to do everything for them. try learning to play a real instrument rather than just being the laziest DJ on the planet. Djing can be a pretty pathetically simple 'talent' (some DJs have crazy mad skill I could never achieve) now you want to hit the spacebar and click on clips with the quantise set to 4 measures. don't hurt yourself turning the fader left and right.

another thing about warp is that you can put your own swing into clips by putting warp markers wherever you want.

the more you warp the easier it gets, your time is probably better spent offline than online at this point.

if you make your own music instead of relying on other people warp is pretty much irrelevant.


/see what spending 2 hours at the DMV will do to you? thanks for the chance to vent.

[pulsoc]

For the OP - Live is essentially a different paradigm than traditional DJing. You can *sort-of* emulate certain traditional DJ functions, but it is a very different tool. If you haven't worked with digital djing before you may want to start by checking out Traktor or Deckadance, they are much closer to the traditional DJ paradigm. If you stick with Live, expect to change the way you think about djing.

There is nothing wrong with either way, and you would be well-advised to ignore the fanboys who bemoan the 'laziness' and whatever garbage they think of to describe non-Live anything.

[Tone Deft]

you would be well-advised to ignore the fanboys who bemoan the 'laziness' and whatever garbage they think of to describe non-Live anything.

that's ME!!!

[pixelbox]

you would be well-advised to ignore the fanboys who bemoan the 'laziness' and whatever garbage they think of to describe non-Live anything.

that's ME!!!

Ah, Tone...you've finally hit celeb status! Congrats, man!

[Tone Deft]

you would be well-advised to ignore the fanboys who bemoan the 'laziness' and whatever garbage they think of to describe non-Live anything.

that's ME!!!

Ah, Tone...you've finally hit celeb status! Congrats, man!

I'm up there with OJ!!