music theory boffins - chord progressions and right chords

[sweetjesus]

lets say i have chosen a scale.. say A major (consisting of):

A - B - C# - D - E - F# - G#

and i want an I - iii - iV progression..

i know the chord progression will be A - C# - D (right?) .. but how do i dial the specific triads in.

i read one place that the triad can be figured out as the 1st, 3rd and 5th notes of the major scale.

does that mean I have to figure out the major scale for A then work out the 1st, 3rd and 5th and then work out C# major scale and work the 1st, 3rd and 5th of that then move onto D major and do the same?

*scratching head*

[synnack]

Short answer: Yes, that's what it means.

That is supposing you want all 3 to be major chords.

It might sound better if some are minor but you'll have to try and see. For minor, take the 3rd note of that scale (second of the triad for that chord) and flat it by one half step.

For example C Major chord is C, E, G. C Minor Chord is C, Eb, G.

[sweetjesus]

. For minor, take the 3rd note of that scale (second of the triad for that chord) and flat it by one half step.

For example C Major chord is C, E, G. C Minor Chord is C, Eb, G.

thanks!
getting there,
what you mentioned, thats changing the entire scale to a minor one right?

or do you mean i can use a minor chord in one step in a progression based on the major scale?

[4.33]

on a major scale triads basing on the I, IV, and V steps of the scale are major and those on the ii, iii and vi - minor (vii - diminished)

feel free to substitute maj for min if it pleases your ear tho))

rtfm to the music))

[aisling]

lets say i have chosen a scale.. say A major (consisting of):

A - B - C# - D - E - F# - G#

and i want an I - iii - iV progression..

i know the chord progression will be A - C# - D (right?) .. but how do i dial the specific triads in.

i read one place that the triad can be figured out as the 1st, 3rd and 5th notes of the major scale.

does that mean I have to figure out the major scale for A then work out the 1st, 3rd and 5th and then work out C# major scale and work the 1st, 3rd and 5th of that then move onto D major and do the same?

*scratching head*

If your taking that A major scale. The chordal progression will not be all
major but will actually become major, minor, minor, major, major, minor and diminished (flat 3 and flat 5)

Thus being A major, b minor c# minor, D major, E major, F# minor and G# diminshed.
So a I III IV in that scale would become

A major, C#minor, D major.

For all your major scales the same applies. Just superimpose the concept of major, minor, minor, major, major, minor, diminished on top of you scale (coresponding to the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 degree of the scale)

I hope this is benificial for you.

[aisling]

on a major scale triads basing on the I, IV, and V steps of the scale are major and those on the ii, iii and vi - minor (vii - diminished)

feel free to substitute maj for min if it pleases your ear tho))

rtfm to the music))

we typed this at the same time, you beat me to the submit button

[aisling]

opps

[Machinate]

I find that instead of thinking in absolute "alphabetical" music it is much more efficient to think in intervals.

0 2 2 1 2 2 2 1

that also tells us that

major:
0 (2+2) (2+2+1+2) -(hahaha, hope I got all that right, definitely not in the zone right now! *yawn*)

I had a tutor who wrote a music theory book, it was excellent.. But not out in english, unfortunately.

a.

[sweetjesus]

4.33 and aisling, thanks this is exactly what i was looking for

ill look into ur number method in a bit machinate since i understand technical explanations better, but what the guys said makes perfect sense.


4.33 and aisling, is there a site or something with more explanations of where you got this from:

MAJOR SCALE
I = major
ii = minor
iii = minor
IV = major
V = major
vi = minor
vii = diminished

[aisling]

4.33 and aisling, thanks this is exactly what i was looking for

ill look into ur number method in a bit machinate since i understand technical explanations better, but what the guys said makes perfect sense.


4.33 and aisling, is there a site or something with more explanations of where you got this from:

MAJOR SCALE
I = major
ii = minor
iii = minor
IV = major
V = major
vi = minor
vii = diminished

There may be, I imagine there is but sadly I don't know.
If you want to pm me with a mailing address, I'll snail mail you some photocopies of material that is rather "easy" to understand.

I am in the USA and your down under so it could be 7-10 days before it arrives to you. Not instant net gratification but the best I can do!

[loophead]

Triads are root - a third up from the root - and a fifth up from the root.

You take your scale (what you defined at the begining) and do the alterations so that all notes are within that defining scale.

so if you are looking at the ii chord the 'root' is the second note in your defining scale. Is the third up from that a major or minor to keep within the defining scale ?

This is how to think it all through. Of course then one might think of open vs. closed voicings, altered notes etc etc. But for the question posed this will allow you to work out any harmony.

[longjohns]

I -iii - IV seems an unusual progression (?) - good on ya

just found this:

I - bIII - IV : e.g., the guitar solo from 'Free Bird' (Lynyrd Skynyrd)

*pumps fist*

[Angstrom]

4.33 and aisling, is there a site or something with more explanations of where you got this from:

MAJOR SCALE
I = major
ii = minor
iii = minor
IV = major
V = major
vi = minor
vii = diminished

this site has most of what you need to know
http://musictheory.net/ but don't be put off by the talk of staffs and ledgers, it's all applicable - even to a staff-free musical world

I bet you are familiar with it - but anyway, it is divided into chunks of little flash based lessons. This one here is about the diatonic triads .. you'll understand when you watch it.

http://musictheory.net/lessons/html/id43_en.html

this is about the roman numerals and how they relate to the triads.
http://musictheory.net/lessons/html/id44_en.html

we are jumping into the middle of the theory lessons there, so It's using terms taught in earlier lessons. Nothing too hard though. It's actually worth a read up on the basics, as it's amazing what you can forget!
It's useful too, teaching the combination of simple things like inversions when related to something like circle progressions gives a pretty useful step up when understanding music.

[aisling]

4.33 and aisling, is there a site or something with more explanations of where you got this from:

MAJOR SCALE
I = major
ii = minor
iii = minor
IV = major
V = major
vi = minor
vii = diminished

this site has most of what you need to know
http://musictheory.net/ but don't be put off by the talk of staffs and ledgers, it's all applicable - even to a staff-free musical world

I bet you are familiar with it - but anyway, it is divided into chunks of little flash based lessons. This one here is about the diatonic triads .. you'll understand when you watch it.

http://musictheory.net/lessons/html/id43_en.html

this is about the roman numerals and how they relate to the triads.
http://musictheory.net/lessons/html/id44_en.html

we are jumping into the middle of the theory lessons there, so It's using terms taught in earlier lessons. Nothing too hard though. It's actually worth a read up on the basics, as it's amazing what you can forget!
It's useful too, teaching the combination of simple things like inversions when related to something like circle progressions gives a pretty useful step up when understanding music.

good stuff, this will probably do the job. Thanks for the link

[ctx]

4.33 and aisling, is there a site or something with more explanations of where you got this from:

MAJOR SCALE
I = major
ii = minor
iii = minor
IV = major
V = major
vi = minor
vii = diminished

You build chords on a scale like this.

You take your scale, for simplicity lets say C major.

C D E F G A B

You pick a step of the scale to start on.

C D E F G A B
^

Then you stack intervals of a third (either major or minor third) from the scale to create the chord. Minor thirds are three semi-tones and major thirds are four semi-tones. For your usual 7 note scales like major, minor, melodic minor, that means you just take every other note from the scale. So for example the tonic chord in Cmajor is like this.

Code: Select all

C   D   E   F   G   A   B
^        ^        ^
  maj3    min3

(by maj3 and min3 I mean intervals of a major third and minor third)

C E G is a C major triad of course. So then look at say the chord starting on the sixth step of the scale.

Code: Select all

C   D   E   F   G   A   B   C   D   E   F   G   A   B
                        ^        ^       ^
                           min3   maj3

A C E is A minor.

If you do this for each step of the scale you'll find you end up with that pattern, Major, minor, minor, Major, Major, minor, diminished.

You can make seventh chords in the same way, just stack another third on the end.