So will you be buying it???

andymal · Post by **andymal** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:34 pm

So, did you buy Live for its audio capabilities or on the prospect of MIDI at a later date.

I must admit, after BETA testing Live 4 for a while I have decided that I will probably be not getting the update. Please don't go into a slanging match and read on.

Don't get me wrong, as with everything Live does, the midi is so elegant and the Impulse and Simpler are great, but I ask myself do I really need it? The purchase is probably going to cost around £80 in the UK, and when I payed £190 only in March it seems a bit steep.

I love Live for its Audio, rock solid performance and when rewired to Reason it is fantastic.

My main reasons for buying Live were for the audio and simplicity of the application. It is fantastic for my DJ needs and home studio needs.

I keep asking myself (BETA aside) if that stabability will still be there with VSTI intigration, for example can you honestly say for example Cubase SX and Tracktion are stable when using VSTI's?

But take a look at a enviroment like Reason and Live 3. Live 3 has its own built in effects which are fine and very stable, and Reason, has anybody every crashed this?

I don't know guys, I just have this feeling that people will have months of frustration with this VSTI not working and that VSTI not working.

Just my opinion and many will not agree, but for me the Reason and Live combo are they way to go.

Regards,

Andy

peeddrroo · Post by **peeddrroo** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:50 pm

different people, different needs...
i reckon that reason is very stable, but it doesn't give me the sound i'm looking for (too thin for me). and i like the sound of certain VSTis, namely NI's stuff.
another point, is that when being rewired and changing track, you have to open two documents (one for each app). so not good in a live situation.

for the stability part, i think that Live4 will manage to do it. it's not that bad now, the main commercial VSTis seem to be working pretty well.

the thing that definitely enhances Live for me, is the feeling that i gained control: previously, i had to create audio clips, and try to modify them a bit (which can lead to interesting results, agreed), but now i feel like i can have exactly the clips and sounds i was looking for. and much more quickly.
i feel this app is exactly the tool that corresponds to my way of working. and it is still very intuitive.
so yes, i'll upgrade. definitely.
and i understand people who won't, because it's true that it can become redundant, depending on the way you work.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:19 pm

i prefer live 3 ,.., in this last days i´ve been trying to look for some aplication that could do what live 3 , ain´t find none, don´t like traktion , ...and i try to look for something else cus live 3 ain´t perfect yet.., and live 4 i could tell at first sight it wasn´t for me... it was deception..., sure it has great things, but i don´t really like it, indeed i hate, maybe because of all the hype...and then..

can u think of any live 3 alternative, that loads fast and works great whit rewire aplications?

Winterpark · Post by **Winterpark** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:32 pm

gotta say, after beta testing for a bit, that live 4 really is very good... now i'm all up for audio manipulation... infact it's kinda where my music is essentially coming from... so live 3 has been a wonderful thing for me.

vsti support is an added bonus, bit really not that essential to what i want to do...but with 4, the impulse and simpler, and the routing possibilities are bloody fantastic... and i don't care about the hype overkill. cause it's bloody great, and well deserved.

-am

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 3:55 pm

I will most definitely be buying it. Ableton cannot be blamed for every incompatible or dodgy VST instrument. It amazes me reading through the Beta forum where many of the reported bugs are known bugs within the VST's themsleves. On closer inspection folks will see that Live 4 will be stable, but of course one has to expect the odd dodgy vst. Its a fact of DAW life is it not?. Can anyone tell me which software is completely bug free....Even Live 3 has a few bugs.

For those that "Hate' it Hmmmm rather strong words for a piece of software all I can say is dont upgrade. You carry on using the bug ridden bidule or whatever else it is you use. And it amazes me that some are already longing for the days of rewiring reason

Eh NEWSFLASH

You can still use rewire...Marvelous

What pisses me off is this moaning and complaining about a 100 euro upgrade cost. in fact I find these statements to be very ignorant. Look at what you get for that. Even the 400 euro price tag new is a total bargain. If you shop around you could get Live brand new for about 250 euros and maybe less.

I can remember spending 400 euros on an external Zoom FX processor not so long ago. It now sits under my monotor to prop it up never switched on.

Come on people. Give the Abletons a break. They have done a marvelous job with 4 and they need all the encouragement they deserve.

but then again the market Live is aimed at is not the pro market which I find a pity as it most certainly is a pro product. Just a shame that many in here are DJ's who perhaps shouldnt be recording at all...I guess that was why so many didnt want midi?

peace

registered user who has forgot password.

kabuki · Post by **kabuki** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:22 pm

Will I be upgrading? Abso-F***ING-lutely.

When Live 3 came out many folks, including myself, said that the sample-level modulation wasn't a big deal ans wasn't needed. I eat my words. I think this software will make itself evidently usefull as soon as folks start using it. I can't tell you how many times I wanted to WRITE my own bassline with Absynth, but had to settle with a Sample in Reason, or I coouldn't find the exact tone in Reason that is therer in the a Pro 53...

And that's just the OBVIOUS benefits. I can't wait to see what ideas the Live community comes up with.

$100 or $300. Its a bargain.

djadonis206 · Post by **djadonis206** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:55 pm

Once Live 4 is released, upgrades from any full version of Live (Live 1, 2 or 3) to Live 4 will cost EUR/USD 119 (download version) or EUR/USD 149 (boxed version).

Special offer for recent purchasers
Customers who purchased Live 3 or an upgrade to Live 3 after May 15th, 2004 will be eligible for a discounted upgrade to Live 4 for only EUR/USD 49 (download version) or EUR/USD 79 (boxed version).

confused?

why wouldn't you upgrade

Kodama · Post by **Kodama** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 4:58 pm

Hell ya!

No software can be perfect unless you make it for yourself, it all depends on how you relate to your environment:

To me, Live has always had this kinda dirty tricky happy accident feel to it. (That's a compliment!)

Now woth Midi, I'm thinking I'm not going to be upgrading Reason anymore....

*Did anyone notice that you can map Midi clips up & down the keyboard?

¡Sick!

I do hope for the arp or VST midi pass through soon though!

nickw · Post by **nickw** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 5:40 pm

If I made it for myself it would be far short of perfect - it probably wouldnt work !

claudek · Post by **claudek** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:03 pm

hell yeah..I'd buy now if I could..This is like the old days when persons were saying OS9 was the only Os for audio on Mac and are afraid to change and move forward when OSx was out.

Live 4 is one of the best modern music machines can buy!
Reason is cute and is great in its' own way, but really not cutting the dice anymore for me..Thin Thin and thinner. Try Live 4 and Reaktor then we are talking.

Willyum · Post by **Willyum** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:26 pm

I think a big problem is so many people pushed Ableton into making Live something it was not intended to be. Live was made for audio sequencing, and as an audio sequencer it did it's job beautifully, That's why it became as popular as it became.....

I don't think this new version should be 'Live 4' because it's not. This is becoming Ableton DAW 4. The thing is almost completely rebuilt, and as with any other complete DAW there will usually be non-stop problems because it tries to be 'all things to all people'. When you go buy a A/V stereo system do you buy the seperate components that fit your needs or do you buy the all in one system with the radio, vcr and dvd built in under the TV screen?

Live 4 will work great for some people and not so good for others. I personally don't experience a lot of the bugs othe people experience, but then again I keep it simple and just use Live and Reason, no VST's. I have the perfect combo. I personally would have prefered some cleaner algorythems (spell check) for time stretch, some right click action, reverse and maybe some more editing tools. That is an upgrade to an audio sequencing instrument. This Live 4 is a new animal.

So now the question is do I want to upgrade to a DAW or stick with my Audio sequencing instrument (which will no longer have updates).

If Live remains completely stable and they continue to upgrade the audio sequencing portion of the DAW then eventually I probably will upgrade. I will wait till the dust settles to see what this NEW animal becomes. I really just wish they would have upgraded the Audio Sequencing Instrument.

snapshot · Post by **snapshot** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:37 pm

I will gladly pay the for this upgrade! I love the way it works with AU's and the few VSTi's that I own. Reason still is a wonderful program, and I'm sure they'll make it even better with the next upgrade. I really don't understand people that say that they won't be using Reason once they get Live 4, as they compliment one another very well; they both have their strengths, and I suspect that those who don't like Reason haven't really gotten into it that deep; it's a very deep program, but does require some "work" on the musician's part. I'm always learning something new that can be done with all those sysnths.
Their are three new things in Live 4 that make it a no-brainer for me, although I'm going to let all of you discover those for yourselves.

Just the improvement in the speed of the program in itself is worth the price of upgrading, let alone all the extra features it now has. You don't have to use each of those features to make it worthwhile, but it sure makes it easier for my type of work to have them than to not!
I've been using Live since version 1.0, and have always been very pleased as to how often Ableton makes updates that have fine-tuned the app. as soon as they find and fix any bugs that weren't killed in the release version, and with that kind of track record, I'm sure they will continue that with version 4 even after they once release it for purchase. I know I've have waited forever for bugs to be fixed in Cubase SX, which seems to be used less and less in my meager studio.
Live/Reason and AU's and many other goodies; damn what a deal IMHO!
Jim

smutek · Post by **smutek** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:14 pm

nickw wrote:If I made it for myself it would be far short of perfect - it probably wouldnt work !

Good one.

10 ?" Where do I Start"
20 GOTO 10

Run

I will be buying it.

claudek · Post by **claudek** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:22 pm

Man you guys are nuts..!!
Live 4 for is the shit! I do not understand how anyone can complain??
I have made almost a full lp now..Maybe work on writing with midi and
you will see what Live 4 can do.! Instead of just looping stuff..write music!
I mean the Simpler, impulse the new chord plugs, randomizer, new routing posibilties and all..Also down about 10% on CPU!

Man just for that I'd upgrade..like buying a cpu upgrade.

creepjoint · Post by **creepjoint** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 9:25 pm

I really dont get the problem here, its still Live, only it extends the functionality to hardware gear which will relieve the limits of our computers processing power and therfore allow us MORE creativity in a similar way we can treat audio. The only reason I never bought live years ago was for this very reason, although now I have it I wish Id bought it earlier

So will you be buying it???

So will you be buying it???

Yes Sir