Live audio quality?

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:14 pm

Ahhhhh, and here comes rikhy, who along with josh von douchepickle actually said in the face of a phase cancellation test proving that an unwarped file and the same file warped but at orig tempo (under the vast majority of circumstances) were identical ----> "you just can't hear the difference because you aren't pro enough."

what a load of horseshit.

admit you are wrong and move on.

The reason i get so pissy about this issue is that a bunch of morons are out there repeating incorrect information over and over again and convincing people that it is true based upon their great level of experience as "pros". It sucks. There are people who are actually dumb enough to just believe what ever is repeated over and over again, so we end up with this rash of people who think that live's audio isn't on par with "pro" applications. it's fucking horseshit.

.lm.

Igor L · Post by **Igor L** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:55 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:The reason i get so pissy about this issue is that a bunch of morons are out there repeating incorrect information over and over again and convincing people that it is true based upon their great level of experience as "pros". It sucks. There are people who are actually dumb enough to just believe what ever is repeated over and over again, so we end up with this rash of people who think that live's audio isn't on par with "pro" applications. it's fucking horseshit.

I just look at the list of Live users and figure that if the audio quality of Live is good enough for Darren Price, Steve Stoll, Richie Hawtin, Kaskade, DJ Krush, Coldcut, etc....well then it must be good enough for me.

90's child · Post by **90's child** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:25 pm

Yes there IS an issue with Ableton's Live's audio quality when you warp. Many people have talked about this in magazines from the music tech magazine Ableton Live 6 reviewer right through to the producers Plaid. I have also noticed it.

BUT nobody on this forum accepts it.

There is no difference between DAWS if you don't use the audio warping. I used to use drum loops for my drum tracks but had to stop because when you warp them the bottom end starts to granulate and it sounds rubbish. It’s the same when warping whole tracks for making mix CD's, even complex mode granulates the bottom end.

Having said all that for speed, inspiration, amazingly warm FX, the saturator plug which is the most usable distortion/overdrive plug I've ever used and the excellent browser, it’s the DAW for me.

I write everything in ableton and export the individual tracks as 32 bit WAVS and then mix in Pro Tools at my mate's studio.

LIVE is my favourite DAW just don't bother with the warp function.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:05 pm

yeah man, of course warping a file changes the way it sounds. Expecting it to work otherwise is foolish.

but some people also claim degredation occurs even when just having warp on, even when the file being played at orig tempo with no warp markers in it. This is simply untrue.

.lm.

evernaut · Post by **evernaut** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:15 pm

90's child wrote: BUT nobody on this forum accepts it.
.

I think you'll find that nearly everyone here accepts it.

Igor L · Post by **Igor L** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:39 pm

90's child wrote:Yes there IS an issue with Ableton's Live's audio quality when you warp.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't timestretching degrade ANY audio in ANY host?

evernaut · Post by **evernaut** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:46 pm

Igor L wrote:
90's child wrote:Yes there IS an issue with Ableton's Live's audio quality when you warp.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't timestretching degrade ANY audio in ANY host?

Yip.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:50 pm

That's what most people don't understand.

Hervé · Post by **Hervé** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:57 pm

leisuremuffin: Posts: 2509

Krisstoff : Posts : 9

Hi leisurmuffin no need to be harsh, it wont make anything going further to say fuck at 9 post of a newby.

take it easy, this forum is as much owned by him than you and your 2000 posts as long that he's copy is legal...

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:03 pm

oh yeah, i'm a real bad guy.

grow a fucking pair of balls, already.

.lm.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:15 pm

Hey I have no interest in this debate, all the maths & nyquist stuff etc is way out of my league right now - but didn't Robert admit that the DAW's can and do sound different but in his opinion - you can't hear it or if you can you can alter it ? ...at any rate there's more 'imo' disclaimers in his comments than I'd like before accepting them as absolute fact. Isn't it clear now that anyone sticking with the dogma that 'all daws sound identical [other than warping]' should relinquish their position and accept that they can sound different according to the tests ableton have done and the insight robert has just given us on automation/ramping etc ?

it seems its debatable whether you personally can hear or notice the difference, or whether enough 'imperceptible' distortion can add up to something perceptible..... at any rate in my eyes robert's comments seem to give credence to some bewildered users claim that they hear an 'obvious' difference. And as robert said, all they have to do is filter out anything they notice...something they might not have to do on whatever other DAW they use to get the results they want

I dunno, dont care...I like how ableton sounds for me. Regarding this aged debate - It just seems clear to me that comments along the lines of 'all daws sound identical [other than warping' are not strictly true anymore, seems debatable to me now. And some guy claiming he can notice the difference, well...he's not strictly full of shit, which seems to be the protocol response around here

Just my layman's outlook on this mind numbing debate
carry on!
[if I've missed something or over rationalized I apologize in advance]

Hervé · Post by **Hervé** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:18 pm

it's just fair play... helping, if you know the forum from inside out, point people in the need to the right topics, it will be always more plesant to have somebody pointing you in the right direction than a robotic search fonction

.
I think it's why abe dont have any mods, they trust regulars here.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:26 pm

well, there's several aspects of the debate.

some are debatable and some aren't.

all are pretty much meaninglesssss... i mean, you can write and mix your music with a billion different tools, no matter which you pick, you're still responsible for the outcome.

but ---> a motherfucker who says they hear a discernable difference bet5ween daws running (just recording, playback and mixing, not built in plugins etc...) with the same hardware is full of shit in my opinion. It's just not possible to hear a fucking difference.

and when people say there is some sort of voodoo that makes files with no warp markers at orig tempo sound fucked up, when it's provable that they are the same, it just pisses me the fuck off.

.lm.

leisuremuffin · Post by **leisuremuffin** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:32 pm

seriously, if any of these motherfuckers thinks they could pick out which daw was which in a blindfolded test they are truly deluded.

.lm.

b0unce · Post by **b0unce** » Fri Aug 31, 2007 6:42 pm

leisuremuffin wrote:well, there's several aspects of the debate.

some are debatable and some aren't.

all are pretty much meaninglesssss... i mean, you can write and mix your music with a billion different tools, no matter which you pick, you're still responsible for the outcome.

but ---> a motherfucker who says they hear a discernable difference bet5ween daws running (just recording, playback and mixing, not built in plugins etc...) with the same hardware is full of shit in my opinion. It's just not possible to hear a fucking difference.

and when people say there is some sort of voodoo that makes files with no warp markers at orig tempo sound fucked up, when it's provable that they are the same, it just pisses me the fuck off.

.lm.

heh. the bit in bold is pretty much how I feel about it, and what I personally draw from robert's comments is that ableton CAN [and probably does 99.9999999% of the time] sound identical to other daws, and you are only as good as your ears and your knowledge of the tools you use. So anyone complaining about sound differences...rather than tell them they're insane or full of shit, which they might be - I'd be more inclined to tell them they need more practise with ableton so they can generate the results they are after - if, of course, you accept the fact there is a perceptible difference in the first place [which is subjective...]. I mean, robert's comments seem like the healthy compromise this tired debate needs...to me, the layman anyways

+1 for the blind fold test

but we'd have to make sure the ableton generated files included the debatably im/perceptible differences robert referred to

breast