Bass guitar recording - tips?

Grahambo! · Post by **Grahambo!** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:19 pm

Howdy gents/ladies,

I've been a bass player for about 7-8 years now. Never really recorded outside setting up a mic in our "jam room" and just letting it grab all the jams we throw around. I have had Ableton for months now, and usually just use it to screw around and write some electronic noise, etc. I plugged my bass (Ernie Ball Musicman Sterling 4 string) into my computer today and it just sounds.... eck. I don't know. I'm using a Creative X-fi Xtreme Music soundcard in my comp, so that could be it, although i thought that was a good card. Maybe it's from the adaptor I have to use in order to go from 1/4" to 1/8"? I dont know. It just sounds bad.

Any tips of audio effects I should use to improve the sound?

icedsushi · Post by **icedsushi** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 9:52 pm

Your impedance probably isn't matched, especially if you're going into a line level input.

Get a good DI or mic pre with guitar level hi-Z inputs. You will notice a big increase in sound quality.

Clearscreen · Post by **Clearscreen** » Mon Sep 03, 2007 11:36 pm

a decent preamp/DI will help, but i've run my bass straight into the mic input on my laptop and got an ok sound. try getting some bass cab impulse responses (http://noisevault.com/nv/index.php?opti ... cat&cat=18) and running em in kefir (http://habib.webhost.pl/_vst_keFIR.php)... that works the best for me, but it can chew up a fair bit of cpu. if you want to buy stuff the ampeg svx plugin is meant to be good (http://www.ampegsvx.com/)

Jaberwookie · Post by **Jaberwookie** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:14 pm

The Ampeg SVX is awesome. I use it all the time. A mate of mine (session bassist with Amy Winehouse, Wu-Tang Clan, TV On The Radio, Antibalas) has the real thing and the plugin. He was disgusted by how good the plugin is. If you're a serious bassist, look no further.

Michael-SW · Post by **Michael-SW** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:07 pm

As people said, by just plugging the bass in you miss all the speaker/amp/cabinet goodness you are used to hearing. Either you simulate those with electronic plugs (some are very good) or you just continue to record the audio output of your rig.

DrXparaMental · Post by **DrXparaMental** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:13 pm

Grahambo! wrote:Howdy gents/ladies,

I've been a bass player for about 7-8 years now. Never really recorded outside setting up a mic in our "jam room" and just letting it grab all the jams we throw around. I have had Ableton for months now, and usually just use it to screw around and write some electronic noise, etc. I plugged my bass (Ernie Ball Musicman Sterling 4 string) into my computer today and it just sounds.... eck. I don't know. I'm using a Creative X-fi Xtreme Music soundcard in my comp, so that could be it, although i thought that was a good card. Maybe it's from the adaptor I have to use in order to go from 1/4" to 1/8"? I dont know. It just sounds bad.

Any tips of audio effects I should use to improve the sound?

Hi
I can so relate to your exact post because I am a bassist turned Ableton Live & VSTi addict myself. I have been playing for about 30 years, but am a relative new comer to Live and VST in general.

The biggest (most effective) thing in general are your "externals" IE. Bass, Effects Processing & Soundcard. All three are HUGE with respect to what you hear back from your recordings. I am certain you will get as many different recommendations as there are individuals that reply to your posted query. That being because there is so much high quality equipment to be had these days. However, the undeniable of it all is that your gained interest is going to be directly proportionate to your initial investments. DON'T skimp on your soundcard.

At this point I have to ask you a specific question to really help you which I would like to. After all, us bassists gotta stick together. Too many modules out there are after our job!

Are you using a Laptop or Desk Top computer?

Your Sterling is (of course) A-1. I owned one and loved it's clean "tight n bright" tone. It was just too small for me, but that's just personal BS that don't mean thing.

Next: You can go directly into your card via the quarter inch jack, but I don't recommend it. If you use some type of QUALITY floor controlled effect bank or processing station, it should have XLR outputs. Stick with the mono output if the unit has stereo.

Next: XLR connect your floor device to the your card. Motu, Presonus, Edirol, E-Mu all have killer preamps that will serve to "warm up" your tone and effectively eliminate what may otherwise be "too digital" sounding.

Once you are inside the box, you're 75% "there" I will tell you about more as soon as I know whether you are using a Laptop or desktop computer.

Grahambo! · Post by **Grahambo!** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:15 pm

Hey guys/gals,
thanks for all the replies.

DrXparaMental: I am using a desktop now. I used to have a sweet Alienware laptop, but the motherboard friend, and now that I'm back in school (just transferred to the University of Illinois; I'm a Junior), a desktop will suffice.

It has a Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 processor, 2 Gigs of 800mhz memory, etc. It's a pretty bitchin' computer, if you don't mind me saying.

This computer music stuff is pretty new to me. I really just use it to mess around.

Yeah, my bass is pretty ace. I love it. I DO NOT normally use any effects processor or pedal. On occasion, I will use a Boss Blues Driver pedal to give me some seriously awesome bass distortion, but that's about it. I usually just mess with my mids and lows to produce some killer feedback. That's it.
So I'm not sure an effects processor is relevant.

But did I get this right? 'If I have a quality effects processor, I can plug into that, then plug that into my card via my 1/4-1/8 adapter and it should sound better? The adapter won't matter as long as I have a decent effects processor or preamp inbetween my bass and the computer?

Should I consider getting a new sound card altogether? Maybe an external one that most musicians use, with 1/4" jacks, etc.? Those have preamps built in, or would it not matter since they are 1/4" jacks?

Sorry for all the newbish questions. Just want my bass to sound good. It's hard to live with piss-poor quality bass recordings when you have a sweet bass and a sweet computer.

EDIT: Maybe something like this will work better? http://www.stealthplug.com/Main.php?prod-SP.php Maybe that'll sound better? I looked at the Ampeg SVT thing, looks cool, but wouldn't my bass still sound poor because of a lack of preamp or whatever, or even because of my 1/8" adapter?

DrXparaMental · Post by **DrXparaMental** » Tue Sep 04, 2007 9:28 pm

Sorry to throw so much at you at one time. The pedal board, or in my case a Roland v bass module, is merely to facilitate an XLR output prior to an XLR input on a good soundcard. You want this type of connection to your soundcard in order to get the best balanced signal possible.

That is a very nice computer that will allow you the liberty of many simultaneous operations. Thing is, and I know this is unfair with you in school and being a bit limited, but you need your computer's internal capabilities matched to an equivalent external gear set up. Probably not very realistic for someone doing what I SHOULD have done, namely working very hard on an education.

I can assure you of this: A 500.00 soundcard will make your day. Your bass will sound 10 times better and you will also achieve instantly a far greater degree of tonal diversity. This is where I would start.

I would STRONGLY recommend either a E-MU 1820m, a Motu Ultra lite or a Presonus Firepod. Any of these are the first and most potentially effective step in achieving killer tone while recording your bass.

The bass is a weird instrument to work on and achieve a truly pleasing tone from consistently. It's very tricky because it NEVER comes out sounding like it does going in. The whole trick is recording a very high quality modest and therefore clean signal level to begin with. The end result of what you hear back from your recordings of the bass are the product of very specific & formulated mastering. Live 6.0 has EVERYTHING you will need to do this mastering. I have built some audio effect racks that are very precise mastering tools. Thing is, you HAVE to get a very healthy signal recorded to Live's tracks in order to make this mastering process a reality. Can't have one without the other.

Does your bass amp have a "line out"? Have you made certain your Sterling's battery is fresh?

Just some thoughts.

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:01 am

+1 on the Stealthplug, I have one, it works great, comes with Amplitube which has bass guitar amp/cabinet/FX simulations. for $100 it can't be beat.

I'm not sure what the talk of XLR cables is about, you don't really need them.

I use at various times
- stealthplug
- edirol UA101 (has a guitar input)
- Pod XT and other devices like that (the Pod is the only one worth mentioning)
- a stomp box into a line in (rarely do this actually)

Grahambo! · Post by **Grahambo!** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:23 am

Whew. Ok. Thanks for all the replies, lads. I appreciate it.
The Firepod is lookin' tasty. It has a lot of inputs, too, which is perfect for my little band. We have my bass, a guitar, a few little toy synths, the drums, and... once in a blue moon, vocals.

I'm not sure if my motherboard has a firewire port though. I would imagine it would, being a pretty top of the line EVGA motherboard and all, but hell, I don't know.

Maybe a smaller, USB powered one would suffice?

And sorry to sound dumb again, but basically my lone problem (at this stage in the game) is getting an XLR input on my soundcard (e.g. get a new soundcard like the FirePod, etc. that has XLR inputs)?

My Sterlings battery is new. And to be completely honest, I haven't tried the line-out on my Bass amp. It's sort of a shitty, but big amp. A SWR 4004. 400 watts, which is cool, and I have a 4x10 with a 1x15 for a full stack, but I would prefer an Ampeg, I think. oh well. I don't have my amp with me here at school, though, so I'll have to wait till this weekend to drive back home and check it out (about a 2 hour drive, being I'm from Chicago).

thanks for the help.

EDIT: Also, Tone Deft, you mentioned the Stealth Plug. You like it, eh? DrXparaMental, how about that as an alternative to spending big $$$ on a new soundcard?

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 1:30 am

you don't need XLR.

the stealthplug might not be ideal, check it closely, it's a guitar plug on one end (mono 1/4") and a USB connector on the other end. in the middle there's a black plastic bulge that is the sound card, you plug headphones into that. in a band situation you'd have your output from Live coming out of the black box in the steathplug cable, kinda clumsy but you could tape the leads together.

nate_D · Post by **nate_D** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:43 am

Ampeg SVX...

/drool

Tone Deft · Post by **Tone Deft** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:59 am

nate_D wrote:Ampeg SVX...
/drool

+1 I've heard the same thing from very reputable sources.

pierce200 · Post by **pierce200** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:59 am

I plug a 1/4 inch cable right into my Firewire 410.
It sounds exactly like a normal good DI tone.
Wih a moderate amount of plug-in compression it sounds exactly well, like a bass.
I hesitate to state the obvious, but 85% of the sound is in the fingers.
If your missing an amped sound there are numerous plug-ins including the IK SVX.
Or throw a Sans Amp DI in the chain. There are countless congfiigurations but plugging straight in should get you an honest, quality bass tone.
Oh yea, the bass part itself is rather crucial. Hope I don't sound condescending, but this is one of the simpler aspects of recording.

dootdoot · Post by **dootdoot** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 12:48 pm

I strongly suggest getting the best raw signal down on the track as you can, then worry about post processing after that. You can use a simple DI if the interface expects a lo-Z signal, or you can use a simple mixer to act as a pre and gain control before hitting the input.

Once you have that bass track down you can use Live's effects to churn out loads of different tones. Plus, you will have worked out a useful recording chain for getting bass (or guitar, or keys...) into your DAW using the interface that you have.

Bass guitar recording - tips?

Bass guitar recording - tips?

Re: Bass guitar recording - tips?

Bass Recording