Logic 8 finally released! NO JOKE THIS TIME!

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:22 pm

Homebelly wrote:
john gordon wrote:how many computers do you think i can install logic 8 on?
how much time have i got?

After Tarekith's response I got the joke...

Poster · Post by **Poster** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:24 pm

Machinate wrote:
Poster wrote:
Naakaala wrote:Nice looking app but this just proves that Logic was way overpriced from the beginning.
no it is not..
in the beginning Logic was Emagic, which was a small team that couldn't afford to sell it for 499,-
It wouldn't surprise me if Apple plays even or makes a very small profit on Logic now..
all being well compensated by selling more hardware..
It wouldn't surprise me if Apple were selling Logic at less than cost, to be honest. I've already seen testimony from people going "Screw Live then" or even "screw pc's, I'm getting a MacPro right away".

In other words, agressive pricing makes people lose the big picture and spend too much in the end... kind of like a no-reserve ebay auction on a Buchla 200e or something.

about the agressive pricing..
some people in here are really blinded by 'the price'....

bla bla bla.. finally an 'ecxuse' to point your finger..

But initially you chose to buy Live right?
Why didn't you buy Logic then?
Ok, the price was not right.. fair enough..
But you did know what value you get for each package..
You should've saved some more money to get what you really need..

We're talking about buying the tools that get your ideas done, fit your workflow, work with on a daily basis..
We're not talking about a loaf of bread here;
hhhmmmm don't like the white, buying brown tommorrow..

need vs. get/want

What's next?
Cubase dropping to 498,- next week..
You're going to run to the Stein camp? Look what they have to offer Ableton! Beat that!
But did you ever want Cubase? Think about it..

My point is; this agressive pricing makes some people blind..
Just buying Logic because they now can, not necessarily need it or ever dreamt of..
Not even thinking if it actually fits their flow..
Blinded by all the 'free' plugins and 45678 GB of Apple floops..

Blaming Ableton for their pricing can be so lame coming from people who bought Live because they felt very comfortable with it..

That's why you bought it right? Because you needed it..

You paid the 599,- knowing exactly what you we're getting for that money..

Seriously; you cannot expect Ableton to match Apple's over-agressive price fight..

I don't mean this as a generalization ofcourse, but some consensus can be spotted..

mohler · Post by **mohler** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:28 pm

Damn Logic users!

I went to the Apple store on Regent St in London and they have sold out of Logic Studio Upgrades from logic pro 7!!!

Now I have to wait!

Damn Early adopting Logic users....... myself included

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:34 pm

Poster wrote: In other words, agressive pricing makes people lose the big picture and spend too much in the end... kind of like a no-reserve ebay auction on a Buchla 200e or something.
about the agressive pricing..
some people in here are really blinded by 'the price'....

bla bla bla.. finally an 'ecxuse' to point your finger..

But initially you chose to buy Live right?
Why didn't you buy Logic then?
Ok, the price was not right.. fair enough..
But you did know what value you get for each package..

We're talking about buying the tools that get your ideas done, fit your workflow, work with on a daily basis..
We're not talking about a loaf of bread here;
hhhmmmm don't like the white, buying brown tommorrow..
You should've saved more money to get what you really need..

need vs. just get/want
What's next?
Cubase dropping to 498,- next week..
You're going to run to the Stein camp? Look what they have to offer Ableton! Beat that!
But did you ever want Cubase? Think about it..
My point is; this agressive pricing makes some people blind..
Just buying Logic because they now can, not necessarily need it or ever dreamt of..
Not even thinking if it actually fits their flow..
Blinded by all the 'free' plugins and 45678 GB of Apple floops..
Blaming Ableton for their pricing can be so lame coming from people who bought Live because they felt very comfortable with it..
That's why you bought it right? Because you needed it..
You paid the 599,- knowing exactly what you we're getting for that money..
Seriously; you cannot expect Ableton to match Apple's over-agressive price fight..
I don't mean this as a generalization ofcourse, but some consensus can be spotted..

I've not seen many people saying that they will ditch Live because of this actually .
There are people saying that Sampler and Operator should be bundled and the EIC thrown in for the price .. but then that's nothing new.
I've seen people saying that Sampler and Operator should be included since they first appeared. I don;t think concensus has really changed that much there.
EIC is bundled for the boxed price already ... what is Ableton now $499 ? So the main consensus seems to be add in teh instruments and give us something thrilling which is new and we will be happy.

Where it has changed is that people who use timeline based apps and have had a copy of Logic or Cubase in the past, but felt they were too cluttered and too expensive are now thinking that a cheaper and simpler looking Logic is a viable option.
The consensus I have seen is that people who need an 'arranging' program feel that paying for Logic8 is the best way to get that arranging program and Leave Live to do what it does best. IE they intend to try and rewire Live to logic or some such solution.

Perhaps I'm misreading the general vibe.

I used to use Cubase for example - I opened it a year ago to do a project that needed some intensive crossfading. The crossfading was great and easy, but otherwise it was a PITA , but if I could have those functions in an app that wasn't a PITA I would buy it, simple as that. I do need those functions, so I will buy them.

there's no blame, or sudden denial that I like Session or simplicity and innovation, but there is a realisation that certain tools are good for certain jobs. Why not have a hammer and a screwdriver?

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:48 pm

Well I'm sure that Mr Jobs would like me to ditch my PC and buy a Mac so that I can get onto the instant Logic 8 bandwaggon. That's the whole point, right?

So I have bad news for him... Audition 3.0 (also announced within the last week or so) still looks to me like it blows the roof off Logic in terms of Audio editing, recording, mixing, mastering. Check the videos on this site, and what you'll see is a whole array of powerful feaures that Logic plain doesn't have

http://www.adobe.com/products/audition/features/

Take it as given that Live 6 is my sequencer of choice. So what I need to complement that is an amazingly efficient programme for doing the power-audio stuff and mastering tracks. Audition does that in spades. Apple may have grafted most of Soundtrack Pro's features into Logic (and then, rather superflously, surely?) bundled Soundtrack Pro as well... but Audition is just streets ahead.

With detals of Sonar 7 also leaked today, recent news of Samplitude 10, and Reason 4 hitting stores in around two weeks time, there's sure going to be some hot competition going on over the next few months!

Homebelly · Post by **Homebelly** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:13 am

headquest wrote:Well I'm sure that Mr Jobs would like me to ditch my PC and buy a Mac so that I can get onto the instant Logic 8 bandwaggon. That's the whole point, right?!

Of course he does,, thats his job.

headquest wrote:So I have bad news for him... !

Good for you,,
Thats your right as a consumer to make a choice,,

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:37 am

I doubt that Ableton pricing on anything will go down. I also imagine that whatever they are working on with C74 might be costly due to a potentially smaller market interest.

Good thing I got a new job.

headquest · Post by **headquest** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:24 am

Homebelly wrote:
headquest wrote:Well I'm sure that Mr Jobs would like me to ditch my PC and buy a Mac so that I can get onto the instant Logic 8 bandwaggon. That's the whole point, right?!
Of course he does,, thats his job.

There's surely a case for suggesting that selling Logic as a specific product that has value is a part of his job? (as opposed to using it as a carrot in order to sell more important/profitable products)?

I'm sure if I was a Logic user I would want the developer to treat it with that sort of respect in its own right anyway

I just think that they are sending out some mixed messages here - even more so removing the dongle. It's great that they removed it of course, just that it's interesting that in Logic's case it actually worked.... so why would they want to? Do they no longer care if cracked versions appear, on the basis that it might sell more of their computers...?

shaneblyth · Post by **shaneblyth** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:25 am

I think it is a little crazy a whole bunch of statements that people are suddenly get rid of Live and getting logic or selling there PC and buying a Mac all becuase they dropped the price of Logic.
I mean think about it.......... thats not very clear thinking..
Let me explain what I think

I bought live because i liked it and it worked for me..
financially I would not think it a smart move to sell live and buy logic unless it was Logic that I really liked and wanted all the time. I mean that type of thinking is very flawed.
Live and Logic are 2 utterly different DAWS which come at things from totally different ways. I cant do in Logic what I do in Live. I cant be a Kid Beyond on the new Logic I cant record or get on stage and loop like that.
Also the other point is if I wanted something like Logic in the first place and not something that woked like live I would have bought something different.. for example Tracktion or one of many other DAWS that function in that manner AND are alot cheaper than live in the first place.
Live is a different beast to just about any other DAW. I might buy Logic to work along side of Live but it could never replace it.
If you only use the arrangment view and not the session view then why are you using Live and not some other DAW? To me it makes no sense.

forge · Post by **forge** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:36 am

shaneblyth wrote:I think it is a little crazy a whole bunch of statements that people are suddenly get rid of Live and getting logic or selling there PC and buying a Mac all becuase they dropped the price of Logic.
I mean think about it.......... thats not very clear thinking..

no you're missing the main point, it's not about people dropping live, it's more to do with people spending all their cash on Logic and not upgrading Live or buying Ableton's instuments

LOFA · Post by **LOFA** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:47 am

forge wrote:
shaneblyth wrote:I think it is a little crazy a whole bunch of statements that people are suddenly get rid of Live and getting logic or selling there PC and buying a Mac all becuase they dropped the price of Logic.
I mean think about it.......... thats not very clear thinking..
no you're missing the main point, it's not about people dropping live, it's more to do with people spending all their cash on Logic and not upgrading Live or buying Ableton's instuments

The point I thought was that Ableton tends to charge a lot of money for their products, especially compared to logic's current pricing.

I find it funny that I like giving money to Ableton, even though they have been getting a little aggressive on their pricing but I hate giving money to apple even though their products seem to be getting increasingly reasonable in pricing.

I wonder how many Logics EVILEVILEVILEVILEVILEVILEVIL can get at this rate for his army of Mutant Lemurs.

forge · Post by **forge** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:51 am

LOFA wrote:
forge wrote:
shaneblyth wrote:I think it is a little crazy a whole bunch of statements that people are suddenly get rid of Live and getting logic or selling there PC and buying a Mac all becuase they dropped the price of Logic.
I mean think about it.......... thats not very clear thinking..
no you're missing the main point, it's not about people dropping live, it's more to do with people spending all their cash on Logic and not upgrading Live or buying Ableton's instuments
The point I thought was that Ableton tends to charge a lot of money for their products, especially compared to logic's current pricing.

I find it funny that I like giving money to Ableton, even though they have been getting a little aggressive on their pricing but I hate giving money to apple even though their products seem to be getting increasingly reasonable in pricing.

I wonder how many Logics EVILEVILEVILEVILEVILEVILEVIL can get at this rate for his army of Mutant Lemurs.

actually there seem to be several points floating around

a guess that's what floating point means

the particular floating point I was referring to was the interpretation that people are talking about dropping Live

I dont think many have been talking about dropping it altogether

shaneblyth · Post by **shaneblyth** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:16 am

I think we can easily get distracted when the new shiny box appears on the shelf. What we should be focusing is making some music..
The BEatles did it on a 4 track tape recorder and ping ponged recordings to get more than 4 tracks. If we want to make decent music we can do it on some old crusty PC with some free software probably
If it is good music it is good music .. I think we have too much choice these days and too many buttons to push. I like live cause I can improvise by myself without those buttons getting in the way if it is setup well.
Its all about the music not PC or Live or Logic or Mac or Amiga or Tracktion

Homebelly · Post by **Homebelly** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:46 am

[quote="headquest]
There's surely a case for suggesting that selling Logic as a specific product that has value is a part of his job? (as opposed to using it as a carrot in order to sell more important/profitable products)?

I'm sure if I was a Logic user I would want the developer to treat it with that sort of respect in its own right anyway

[/quote]I'm realy not sure of your point here,, I've been using logic for a long time now but I feel no exclusive owner ship of it,, it's just a tool,, i could really care less who else is able to buy it,, you seem to be surgesting that Apple should be showing it more respect than they are and that this lack of respect should be a course for concern for the logic user base,, and any how,, how is apple any diferent to any number of other coporation in there use of "a carrot on a stick",,?

[quote="headquest]I just think that they are sending out some mixed messages here - even more so removing the dongle. It's great that they removed it of course, just that it's interesting that in Logic's case it actually worked.... so why would they want to? Do they no longer care if cracked versions appear, on the basis that it might sell more of their computers...?[/quote]the dongle is a pain in the ass,, no pun intended

,, in some ways the computer is the dongle,, i can only assume that if some one is running a "Crack" of logic, then they must be running it on a mac,, but at the price it is now offered at it's probably worth less hassle to buy it than it is to down load it from a torrent some place,,, and besides all that,, why should any of us care what apple bases it's desitions on?,, hell,, if they want to include it in a packet of breakfast serial,, so what?
Lots of people have been complaining about the dongle as it makes using Logic on a lap top a bit of a juggle,, also,, apples big move has always been into film and graphics first,, audio second,, the hard ware is bassed on that,, mac pro desk tops are designed with that in mind, the over flow benifit is that we get to run lots of plugs and synths in real time,, with intel, the lap tops and the imacs are where it will be at for audio in the next year or so and they have very little room for extra dongles and what not,,, my MBP is just as capable as my G5 2.3 DP now,, two or three revisions and i'll never have to worry about CPU over head again,,

,
Go head and enjoy audition,, your right it is a very cool package, just as is sampletude,, mack music with what your comfertable with and quit wasting energy on worrying about apples marketing plans

jeffb01 · Post by **jeffb01** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:00 am

shaneblyth wrote:I think we can easily get distracted when the new shiny box appears on the shelf. What we should be focusing is making some music..
The BEatles did it on a 4 track tape recorder and ping ponged recordings to get more than 4 tracks. If we want to make decent music we can do it on some old crusty PC with some free software probably....

I think about that a lot (the beatles recording sgt peppers on a 4-track), but not recently. Thanks for reminding me. It always inspires me to make music and not excuses or wish lists.