Wish : non - linear Arrangement

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:59 pm

it's all in the title really.

I would like Ableton to come up with some way of making Arrangement as non-linear as Session is.

That may sound weird, as arrangements of music are normally linear. But that's only at the final stage ... 'playback', prior to point that flexibility is a benefit. Fixedness isnot a benefit.
Whether it is in arranging a song or exporting short/long/dj/ambient variations for different situations or playback media, non-linearity is key to getting the desired result.

Please make Arrangement non-linear

Poster · Post by **Poster** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:23 pm

p l u s

o n e

friend_kami · Post by **friend_kami** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:14 am

andydes · Post by **andydes** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:08 pm

Yeah, session and arrangement seem like completely separate entities. A bit more cohession between them would be great. How about:

Midi assigable launch buttons for selected sections of the arrangement (one shot, loop or play from here). Place start and end markers in the timeline, like having multiple loops set up.

Back to arrangement buttons on individual tracks. Surely, it's so obvious.

Clone clips. Edit one and they all change (also between session and arrangment) Can be unlinked if desired.

New "arrangemnt" clip in session view. Highlight a section of a track in arrangement and create a clip of this section. Links back to a particular part of the arrangement (on that track only).

Group track folders. Nothing new here, but everyone wants them. Oh, with group launch and master envelopes in session view if you please.

OK, maybe I'm still thinking more in terms of session. Sorry if I've hijacked slightly. Carry on.

Poster · Post by **Poster** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:21 pm

- locator playlist..
- locator follow actions..
- grouping of selections/clips (not consolidating)..

just some small ideas that can be part of a bigger plan ofcourse..

Idonotlikebroccoli · Post by **Idonotlikebroccoli** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:24 pm

Amazing suggestions here! I agree for sure. I actually suspect that Ableton are working on this. Let's hope I'm right.

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:27 pm

yes, I've thought that locator follow actions might be one of the simplest ways they can get some creativity into arrangement.
It's not going to blow anyone's socks off of course, but it would help in arranging that's for sure.

at the moment to get an alternative arrangement I have to cut arrangement sections out and paste them temporarily at the end of the timeline, then cut-time, and play what remains. Ugly!

Poster · Post by **Poster** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:32 pm

Angstrom wrote:at the moment to get an alternative arrangement I have to cut arrangement sections out and paste them temporarily at the end of the timeline, then cut-time, and play what remains. Ugly!

"compressing time"

makes a huge difference..

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:35 pm

oh good, how do you do that then ?

Poster · Post by **Poster** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:39 pm

Angstrom wrote:oh good, how do you do that then ?

search for the teleport and beam up those clips..

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:44 pm

Angstrom - why not just cut time, play, and if you want to put stuff back, paste?

Anyways, thinking about this a little laterally, really what you want could be done with scene follow actions in session view, and a way to automagically turn n bars of music in arrange into a set of scenes with correct follow actions... and back again? This'd make you work in session view, of course, but is that necessarily a bad thing?

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:49 pm

well, normally there's a couple or three sections to cut out. Like - I might want to try bringing the 'middle 8' closer to the front of the song, and at the same time remove the 'verse' the comes immediatley after the middle 8.

In that case there would be two things to hold in the copy buffer, which it couldn't do. In reality this scenario would be much more complex that simply two chunks to handle. I don't really like all my work living in the limbo of the copy buffer either !

forge · Post by **forge** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:01 pm

andydes wrote: Midi assigable launch buttons for selected sections of the arrangement (one shot, loop or play from here). Place start and end markers in the timeline, like having multiple loops set up.

You can actually MIDI assign arrange locators

andydes wrote: Back to arrangement buttons on individual tracks. Surely, it's so obvious.

Even Robert from Ableton has been banging on about this one. It will come eventually, but we may have to wait a while

andydes wrote: Clone clips. Edit one and they all change (also between session and arrangment) Can be unlinked if desired.

I think the amount of times I've wished for this is probably numbering into the thousands now

andydes wrote: New "arrangemnt" clip in session view. Highlight a section of a track in arrangement and create a clip of this section. Links back to a particular part of the arrangement (on that track only).

Oh yes, wished for this one a few times too

andydes wrote: Group track folders. Nothing new here, but everyone wants them. Oh, with group launch and master envelopes in session view if you please.

+1 (bump)

andydes wrote: OK, maybe I'm still thinking more in terms of session. Sorry if I've hijacked slightly. Carry on.

you are 100% right

Angstrom · Post by **Angstrom** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:10 pm

forge wrote:
andydes wrote: New "arrangemnt" clip in session view. Highlight a section of a track in arrangement and create a clip of this section. Links back to a particular part of the arrangement (on that track only).
Oh yes, wished for this one a few times too

that would be my number one wish for the program, it would tie in directly with the way I work.
http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic. ... =metaclips

andydes wrote: Group track folders. Nothing new here, but everyone wants them. Oh, with group launch and master envelopes in session view if you please.

yep, pretty much everyone wants these I think. I'd actually be interested to find out if there is anyone here against group folders and track hiding ?

Poster · Post by **Poster** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 1:14 pm

Angstrom wrote:yep, pretty much everyone wants these I think. I'd actually be interested to find out if there is anyone here against group folders and track hiding ?

at least one..

Benshik wrote:imagine in a future update we get hypothetical folder tracks, racks, and now whole chunks compressed into tiny locators. i think it makes the programs way too complicated as all parts are folded, hidden, compressed somewhere out of reach. id prefer a more visual, straightforward "what you see is what you get approach" which is what live has always been about.