National Geographic says you are a genius

JoeSchubert · Post by **JoeSchubert** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:32 am

Tone Deft wrote:
sparklepuff wrote:I'm actually confused at who is getting under who's skin and who disagrees with who.

Isn't it boiling down to this?:

1. Pressing play on a scene that contains a Beck song, your own little Impulse beat, and perhaps even your own bass line, is NOT as mentally and physically challenging as --

2. Playing Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata - Third Movement.
I agree.

or even knocking out 'Dude Looks Like A Lady' on a guitar, drums, bass or vocals.

wait...are you giving that song props?

beats me · Post by **beats me** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:32 am

Sheesh, didn't think this post would inspire so much controversy but it's always good to see a lively discussion.

Valid points aside between musicians and programmers, I just found it interesting that they used musicianship as a measurement of a child's development. They didn't use any other art form or even science for that matter. I think this is also because you are being extremely focused. I know other people that do amazing visual arts but at the same time are having conversations or blasting music during the process. I don't know about you people but when I am working on music I can't be doing anything else at the moment.

I think another element is that you are also toying with people's emotions that is open to all kinds of interpretation. I'm sure some people get all weepy over a painting of two circles and a squiggly line but that's some scary ass alien mind control shit that I don't even want to get into. Whether you are playing a song composed by somebody else or composing/programming your own music it can have a huge impact on people's state of mind. Maybe that's off topic. Maybe it isn't.

JoeSchubert · Post by **JoeSchubert** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:32 am

sparklepuff wrote:Gotcha.

Now I've got Aerosmith stuck in my head.

"Walk! This! Way! Talk this way-ay."

isn't that a run dmc song?!

HA!

sparklepuff · Post by **sparklepuff** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:49 am

somebody's about to have their [x] touched.

mike holiday · Post by **mike holiday** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:29 am

JoeSchubert wrote:
nathannn wrote:sorry.. i just noticed the mitten..
im from michigan also.
yes...i'm in northern michigan...on the east side of the state just above the thumb...nothing out here but a lot of empty spaces where teeth used to be. and gingivitis.

near oscoda??

south east MI is great!

forge · Post by **forge** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:39 am

pulsoc wrote: one can make music in Live with far less effort.

True enough. Maybe the issue is that it is easier to fake it with software than with a 'real' instrument.

I think that's the point

It's also possible to squeeze your brain dry of all it's chemicals thinking about the many complicated things you enter into the realms of with electronic music

depends what you're doing

I've been playing guitar for about 20 years and I find it alot easier than producing electronic music

except that all this computer and mouse use is making my hands seize up

pulsoc wrote: Really I just wanted to see you tasered

dont we all

beats me · Post by **beats me** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:48 am

forge wrote:I've been playing guitar for about 20 years and I find it alot easier than producing electronic music

I completely agree, although I haven't been playing guitar for 20 years and haven't really touched mine for the last 2. I sometimes feel like going out and joining or starting a rock/metal band just because in my opinion it is the funnest instrument to play live. Just throw down some ca-chunkas and hoodlies and you're rockin'. But I know guitar isn't just about thrashin' around. I would love to learn some Spanish Classical guitar. But regardless of where your guitar skills and interests are you are still concentrating on one instrument, not producing an entire wall of sound with every instrument and sound conceivable.

Tarekith · Post by **Tarekith** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:11 pm

beats me wrote:
forge wrote:I've been playing guitar for about 20 years and I find it alot easier than producing electronic music
I completely agree, although I haven't been playing guitar for 20 years and haven't really touched mine for the last 2. I sometimes feel like going out and joining or starting a rock/metal band just because in my opinion it is the funnest instrument to play live. Just throw down some ca-chunkas and hoodlies and you're rockin'. But I know guitar isn't just about thrashin' around. I would love to learn some Spanish Classical guitar. But regardless of where your guitar skills and interests are you are still concentrating on one instrument, not producing an entire wall of sound with every instrument and sound conceivable.

I think a key point here is that you NOW find the guitar easier, what about when you first started though? I'm another guitar and keyboard player, and I know it was FAR harder to learn to play guitar than to lear how to use Live or any other type of composition tool (Software, ahrdware, whatever). You could argue that coming up with the idea is the hard part about composing with software, not the muscle memory needed to use it. But then I'd argue that people have been writing music for classical instruments for centuries and if you think Live is tough at first, try it with staff paper and for instruments you can't physically play.

Anyway, +1 that learning a traditional instrument is harder than learning something like Live, Logic, Cubase, etc. I don't think it says anything about the results you can get, or demeans software at all, just that there's a lot less involved with getting proficient at those types of tools. I've seen quite a few guys get good enough to perform electronic music live in a couple of years and sound like pro's, and I think it takes a lot longer to get to that point with a traditional instrument.

Child prodigies notwithstanding.

piZMo · Post by **piZMo** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:54 pm

@ beats me

you might be interested in looking at the ancient greeks and their attitude to the importance of music, it was a main part of their education system and life.

no i am not greek, but those ol'boys knew a few things thats for sure.

Daurix · Post by **Daurix** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:59 pm

'Anyone can play guitar'

'I remember remember remember when I lost my mind'

'Imagination is more important than knowledge'

'My brain activity > your brain activity'

beats me · Post by **beats me** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:19 pm

This is why it's sad they are cutting music programs in a lot of schools. There are way more opportunities in a music career if you apply yourself than something like professional sports, but I guess the schools don't see it that way.

I agree with the basic premise that it is a lot harder in the beginning to learn an instrument than a program like Live but I was out on stage playing guitar long before I was releasing quality tracks. Shit, I still don't think my tracks are up to the quality I would like. I think there is a distinct shift when you compare the two. Once you practice your instrument enough and get past the basics then it's all creativity that starts taking over. In contrast with production it is way more of a constant learning process and you are expected to be a master of all instruments when it comes to the end product. As we all know just using a sample or vst of a guitar does not make it sound like a guitarist played the part. In a lot of cases it would be a lot easier if you just had a real musician play the part but you don't always have that luxury.

forge · Post by **forge** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:54 pm

Tarekith wrote:
beats me wrote:
forge wrote:I've been playing guitar for about 20 years and I find it alot easier than producing electronic music
I completely agree, although I haven't been playing guitar for 20 years and haven't really touched mine for the last 2. I sometimes feel like going out and joining or starting a rock/metal band just because in my opinion it is the funnest instrument to play live. Just throw down some ca-chunkas and hoodlies and you're rockin'. But I know guitar isn't just about thrashin' around. I would love to learn some Spanish Classical guitar. But regardless of where your guitar skills and interests are you are still concentrating on one instrument, not producing an entire wall of sound with every instrument and sound conceivable.
I think a key point here is that you NOW find the guitar easier, what about when you first started though? I'm another guitar and keyboard player, and I know it was FAR harder to learn to play guitar than to lear how to use Live or any other type of composition tool (Software, ahrdware, whatever). You could argue that coming up with the idea is the hard part about composing with software, not the muscle memory needed to use it. But then I'd argue that people have been writing music for classical instruments for centuries and if you think Live is tough at first, try it with staff paper and for instruments you can't physically play.

Anyway, +1 that learning a traditional instrument is harder than learning something like Live, Logic, Cubase, etc. I don't think it says anything about the results you can get, or demeans software at all, just that there's a lot less involved with getting proficient at those types of tools. I've seen quite a few guys get good enough to perform electronic music live in a couple of years and sound like pro's, and I think it takes a lot longer to get to that point with a traditional instrument.

Child prodigies notwithstanding.

you're right

but we are definitely all talking about different stages in the process

as I just posted in another thread, getting past the jamming stage onto the production/polishing stage is more of a challenge in Live than some other DAWs - but starting is harder in the others

like playing a 12 string can be heaps harder than a classical

pixelbox · Post by **pixelbox** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:37 pm

I live in a trailer down by the river.

I play guitar (and myself).

I'm not that good at using Live yet, though, even.

nate_D · Post by **nate_D** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:06 pm

i see skill in both for sure. you can't act like live isn't an instrument. i've been using it for 2 years or so and i'm constantly learning new ways to do things i didn't even know about. creating a well thought out, proper sounding song takes a good amount of skill and experience (ears). playing bass/guitar on the other hand is something i've been doing since 6th grade. i'm still learning new scales/modes, which guitar effects get that crunchy sounding distortion, or just song writing in general.
anytime you apply your brain to something musically theres a skill/experience factor that you use regardless of what it is thats making the sound.