Sampler and Operator should be bundled with Live

Lazos · Post by **Lazos** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 2:44 am

Not so much a complaint, and I know this has been said before but considering the pricing for Logic Studio now . . . Come on! I already have Operator, and I love it (except that it cannot load internal tuning files for microtonality). Sampler looks great and would perfectly suit my needs (except that it cannot load internal tuning files for microtonality). It just seems to me that if Ableton is going to charge extra for its instruments that can't be used outside of Live, then they should have more high-powered features (Sorry, I guess I'd be happy with the missing feature above). OR they should just bundle them free with the price of Live, right?

stonee · Post by **stonee** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:16 am

I agree on this based on the pricing of other similar programs. to get the "full" version of ableton, it costs 300-400$ more than the price of the basic ableton. for ableton & isntruments in cananda, it costs over 800$.

Ableton is no where near as useful without operator, IMO

i know alot of people who like ableton, but the pricing puts it out of their range. second semester is going to be payed with my scraps already.

somarefill · Post by **somarefill** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:33 am

with the price of logic 7 being very, very good. it would surprise me if ableton did not include these products in the future.

however, they might not...

ableton live, as good as it is needs to have other products to support future developments, every bit of money counts & if they bundle it all they loose revenue.

VS if they keep the price the same they still will lose revenue, do to other competitors also dropping the prices.

i think what is going to happen is a price drop & a more attractive, more developed (C74) product emerge.

when software developers get tight on time, money & whatever the current market is asking for, things are gonna change.

personally, i think ableton live 6 is a great product.

i worry about future versions if ableton gets tight on money & time. leaving us, the user base to be the BETA testing team, much like how native instruments treat there own users base. which is to say the least "miserable"

i do look forward to whatever ableton works out with C74, i just hope its not so drastic that it just becomes another competitor for the protools/logic market.

if ableton & C74 did it right IMHO, it would be ableton live with tons of great effects, new gui's, & new automation mouse tools.

however, keep C74 out of ableton. the last thing i want is a live version to start trying to be a max/msp.

we already have reaktor as a plugin & thats right where it should be. although i know others will disagree.

and this stuff with ableton lives API for myself would be a waste of time.

i'm just speaking for myslef, its great others want to enhance an already great program. but it does what i need it to already. without me having to learn python etc.

Lazos · Post by **Lazos** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:51 am

Thank for the posts. I agree with both for the most part. For my part, I guess I'm waiting with baited breath to see what Ableton and C74 cook up. Until, then I'll hold off on deciding whether to get Sampler or Kontakt, for instance. I would also rather not see Live get too modular that it becomes cumbersome to use (kinda the opposite of Ableton's philosophy). But I love the direction that they went with devices such as racks. So, far Live still rocks my music world.

somarefill · Post by **somarefill** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 4:04 am

not to spark a debate about what is better? sampler vs kontakt.

but i love sampler, i have owned kontakt for awhile, and yes, it is more powerful.

but sampler in live just cuts to the chase, loads other formats fine (if you like presets) and better yet is supported by ableton.

native instruments have burnt us in so many different ways, we stopped using them period.

there are way to many great software companys out there supporting the products they make & treating the customer like, well respectfully.
(what a concept)

ableton is one of these companys. i would rather pay them for sampler than give native instruments another penny of my money, even for kontakt.

3dot... · Post by **3dot...** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:16 am

could be ... should be... I dont think so...

Homebelly · Post by **Homebelly** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:18 am

220+ posts, and already i feel like an old man,,
Ummm,, not in that sense you understand,,

pepezabala · Post by **pepezabala** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 9:59 am

at least they could give us an operator- and a sampler-version that allows to play presets.

I am not really into FM-synthesis and building my own synth-patches, but I would like to use all the presets included in the live-fills I purchased without slipping into Demo-mode. With sampler they already have something similar going on, so you can use the EIC patches in simpler.

So sell them synth-freaks an updated (modular?) version of operator with even more lfos to twiddle with, but let all other Live-users use the sounds for free.

sqook · Post by **sqook** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:32 am

There's another argument that nobody's made for this: operator and sampler are already exclusive to live, so why not bundle them in?

Pretty much every big-player DAW out there has a set of exclusive plugins. Logic, cubase, pro tools, etc. Amusingly, people seem to complain quite a bit about not being able to use the logic instrument AU's in other hosts, but you never hear this from the cubase or PT folks.

Anyways, the point is, each of these platforms are highly regarded for the bundled plugins that they provide. Live's plugins, though functional, are nothing special compared to the competition from both bundled and 3rd-party plugins. And although operator and sampler have the potential to offer something on that level, but the extra investment scares a lot of people off, IMO.

It's ironic in a way... although Live has made a lot of efforts to improve itself as a DAW, one of the things it lacks in this respect is a set of exclusive, drool-worthy plugins that are part of the purchase. Otherwise, operator and sampler will remain the domain of the live fanboys and plugin enthusiasts, while everyone else drawn to live as a DAW for the workflow will just use 3rd party VST/AU's.

So while I'm also not totally comfortable with live transforming itself into a DAW, if the abes are serious about this, they should consider including operator and sampler into the software for this reason to better establish themselves in the DAW realm, not just to see apple's bet.

hambone1 · Post by **hambone1** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:39 am

I have no need for Operator or Sampler.

Why should I subsidize it as part of a bundle?

Taiis · Post by **Taiis** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:44 am

For Ableton to take such an argument seriously, you would have to argue that they would make more money with sampler and operator bundled, not that "Other daws do it". That's just like saying "But the other kids get to do it? why can't I?".

sqook · Post by **sqook** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:49 am

Taiis wrote:For Ableton to take such an argument seriously, you would have to argue that they would make more money with sampler and operator bundled, not that "Other daws do it". That's just like saying "But the other kids get to do it? why can't I?".

That is my argument, essentially.

If ableton wants to be serious about attracting DAW customers, they should offer similar tools to what other DAW's have. It's not just that "the other kids do it", it's that it makes live more attractive as a DAW platform and not just the "new kid on the block". I would wager that including sampler and operator would probably yield more profits from sales of live than selling them independently does... but of course, I have no way to prove that.

noisetonepause · Post by **noisetonepause** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:22 am

Taiis wrote:For Ableton to take such an argument seriously, you would have to argue that they would make more money with sampler and operator bundled, not that "Other daws do it". That's just like saying "But the other kids get to do it? why can't I?".

I thought like this until Logic 8 was announced.. the game's been changed now.

andydes · Post by **andydes** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:28 am

The reality is, if you're a new non-pro (I assume the majority) customer, bundled instruments and effects are likely to swing you one way or another.

Until you've used it, you're not going to say "wow, Live 7 has clip fades I'm definately buying it now". Even though this kind of feature is probably more important once you start using it.

So I say, from a business point of view, it's probably worth it. I don't care myself, as long as they keep developing the core functionality.

Of course Ableton could go the other way and decide they can't compete in the DAW market and concentrate all their efforts on the DJs. I do hope not.

Homebelly · Post by **Homebelly** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 5:31 pm

noisetonepause wrote:
Taiis wrote:For Ableton to take such an argument seriously, you would have to argue that they would make more money with sampler and operator bundled, not that "Other daws do it". That's just like saying "But the other kids get to do it? why can't I?".
I thought like this until Logic 8 was announced.. the game's been changed now.

this is kind of my thinking, but further to this i don't expect Ableton to announce on the Tuesday after the Monday that apple produce the Studio upgrade that from that pont on al of their products will now come bundled

.
In fact, i would probably be a little disappointed from the point of view as an observer as such a move would imply to me that they are panicking and are probably not on very solid ground as a business. As a user tough, i would love to get operator for free!!
I've only been a Live user for a couple of months,, i've run just about every demo they have had since it worked on a Mac, and so have been watching from afar for quite some time, My feeling is that Ableton/C74 have got some cool stuff working that they will tell us about soon,, maybe the arrival of Logic Studio will cause them to rethink the pricing model,, but as for features and perceived value for money i'm sure it will be competative,,,

Sampler and Operator should be bundled with Live

Sampler and Operator should be bundled with Live

whats next?

sampler vs kontakt